High School 1957 vs 2009

[UPDATE]

When I posted this chain email I received in August..  I had no idea that it would generate this level of attention.

Posting non-original content is not something I teach or normally do.  At the time I thought it was interesting, my list might appreciate it and it would make a good tweet.

I didn’t expect it to generate 100′s of comments and initiate debates on race, religion, sex and drugs… but it has…

I’ll keep this post up for now, but if it really digresses I’ll probably remove it..

The original author of this article created 8 extreme scenarios to highlight some differences between 1957 and 2009.

Obviously there are 1000′s of scenarios that could be created to highlight the good and bad of both generations, but this particular post was written to favor 1957.

I guess the real question is… Would you rather grow up in 1957 or 2009 and why?

Scenario 1:

Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck’s gun rack.

1957 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.

2009 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario 2:

Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins.. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.

2009 - Police called and SWAT team arrives — they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged them with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario 3:

Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.

1957 - Jeffrey sent to the Principal’s office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2009 – Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD. The school gets extra money from the state because Jeffrey has a disability.


Scenario 4:

Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt..

1957 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.

2009 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s mom has an affair with the psychologist.

Scenario 5:

Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1957 – Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock.

2009 – The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations His car is then searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario 6:

Pedro fails high school English.

1957 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.

2009 - Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against the state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English is then banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario 7:

Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.

1957 – Ants die.

2009 – ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents — and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny’s dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario 8:

Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2009 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison… Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.


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250 Responses to High School 1957 vs 2009

  1. Ahhh yes … the good ‘ole days … I miss them!

  2. Rebecca says:

    The fearfuls state of America – and we wonder why 1 in 3 die from heart disease.

  3. Mike Stenger says:

    This is funny stuff Dan! Tell your Mom “Thanks” :-) Tweeted it out @mikestenger

  4. Penny Hilburn says:

    Oh, so very true, life was soooo much easier. Thank your mom for sharing.

  5. Michael G. says:

    This is so sad, but true. Thank you for posting this!

  6. John J says:

    I think it’s interesting that the kids from 1957 are the ones who have essentially made/changed the rules to what we have today. I wonder why?

  7. Tad Wolfe says:

    Great stuff-How did we get here

  8. Paul says:

    In 6th grade (1958) I took my dad’s Japanese Arisaka Type 99 rifle to school for show and tell. He brought it back from the war as a souvenir. Walked to school with the gun, put the gun in the corner until it was time, then during show and tell, showed how to field strip the rifle and how all the parts worked. Put the gun back in the corner until school was out and walked home, the gun on my shoulder. No one gave it a second thought.

    That’s how far down the rat hole we’ve gone!

  9. This is a great post Dan – but one that really should be read twice.
    Once for the wow – you’re right factor. Those days were great.
    And the other for the ‘holy crap – how did we let this happen’ factor.

    Because all of this is true, and so sad. Especially the kids can’t sit still – it’s called energy – remember when we all had it – because it is now an epidemic – 17 million kids on Ritalin (a form of heroine) in the US alone – that is criminal.

    The last 12 school shootings, involved teens on psych drugs.

    Guess what year psychs were established in US – see your comparison of 1957 –

    See a trend – you should.

    Because this isn’t just a trend – this is an issue that affects us today, but more importantly will carry on in full force unless stopped. Our lives didn’t turn to this randomly, it was made certain it would happen and written down and a video broadcast about it. Control on the level of government, education and medical practitioners – that was the goal.

    If you think it’s Science fiction, think again – and see where we are headed – this life we have now will seem like Little House on the Prairie.

    Watch this video – find out more – think about what the next 5, 10, 20 30 years will bring. Notice more drug commercials, and are they starting to lose their shock value when you see them?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu7NDUc5TD4&NR=1

    It will soon be – 2009 – “Remember when you had a choice whether you or your family took a drug”
    to “6 year old child was forced to take ritalin and removed from parents over the objection of it” – and the comparison year will be 2011. Legislation is trying to be passed right now, to make this a legal action.

    Just take a few minutes – you matter to me, your kids matter to me, your family matters to me. I hope you feel the same.

    Stop the Trend…

  10. It’d be funny if it weren’t true. And the majority have been brainwashed into believing this is a good thing.

    Thanks for this article. I shared it with my friends.

  11. Heidi L says:

    There is more to this timeline than just the introduction of Ritalin and other “behavior controlling” drugs into our children. This also represents the same time frame that mothers started working outside the home and leaving others to raise and care for our children. While I do not believe that women should be suppressed in the workplace, I do believe that a mother’s place is with her children. How sad is that we live in a society where being a stay-at-home mom is considered degrading to our sex? No matter how you add it up, no one will ever raise your children with the same love, respect, and patience that you have for your own children. Daycares and even teachers today see these drugs as easy fixes, when in fact, it is the parents responsibilities. The reason so many kids are on these drugs is because the parents find it easier to dish out these drugs than it is to take affirmative action in their children’s lives. Who has the time when you are working 40+ hours a week in order to pay for the fancy toys you use to pacify your child to make up for not being home with them? Parents find it more important to have both parents working so that they can “keep up with the jones’” instead of actually taking care of their own children. I see kids walking around and acting inappropriately all the time, and all I think is “where is your mother?” The guilt over not being there drives parents to spoil their children when the kids have done nothing to earn it (I remember having to work my butt off around the house to earn enough for soda), and bail their kids out when they break the rules, leading to children who think they should get something for nothing and that there is no consequence for their actions. The drug epidemic is just another way for parents to find an easy out for dealing with bad behavior. Yes…I see the humor in this article….and I also see the scary truth about what we have allowed to happen in this country. While the drug companies should be ashamed of themselves, the simple fact of the matter is that the drug companies get away with it because the parents let them. I would also like to add that I understand there are extenuating circumstances like those who have found themselves suddenly as single parents. These people have my utmost respect as raising children is one of the hardest jobs you will ever have.

  12. Good point Heidi,
    It’s the reason I chose to work from home as soon as my kids were born. What a pleasure that has been – and the best of both worlds. My kids never had a babysitter, and I still had my career – I just worked funny hours and worked around them. Now all 3 of them have won the Presidential Award for Educational Excellence, and all tested as Gifted – and are members of the National Association of Gifted Children. Me and my husband were both home with them -and worked from the home – and to say it was an ideal life – is an understatement. It was so great for them, for us, and now for society :)

    That is why I help mothers move back home to work – so they have their financial independence, pride, and motherhood, all in one package.

    Tracy Repchuk

  13. Hugo Serious says:

    You forgot another common scenario:
    Suzie gets molested by her uncle and tells her mother.
    1957 – She is scolded and told not to tattle-tail.
    2009 – Uncle is tried and convicted and sent to prison.

    Or how about this one:
    Billy wants to be president and so plans to go to collage.
    1957 – Billy is black and so isnt allowed into collage.
    2008 – America elects the first black president.

    Dont be fooled into thinking the old days were better just because today isnt perfect either.

    K

  14. Dee says:

    Some things from yesteryear were better than today for many of us, especially since Unc Don didn’t mess with me and college wasn’t a big deal. We just had fun! I love my memories of the good ‘ole days when mom stayed home and took care of us, so lighten up, sooo serious.

  15. miranda says:

    How about back then if a teenage girl gets pregnant, she is shunned and sent away.Now, it’s proudly displayed without any shame and the state pays them for all the illegitimate children.

  16. Kaarin Brown says:

    Cute & clever, and clearly the author thinks 1957 was so much cooler than today. I was there then, and yes it was. BUT if it was really so cool, how come it all disappeared and how did we end up with where we are today? Hmmm, all that good ole boy stuff got us to SWATs and drugs and no body trusts anyone else and . . . and . . .

  17. Kaarin Brown says:

    BTW, moms have been working outside the home for a century or more. Where did the 1957 mom get her hair done? In the salon usually by a working mom. Who waited on your table at Denny’s or HoJo’s? A working mom. Who rang up your purchases at Woolworth’s or TJ&Y? A working mom. Who greeted you at the doc’s office and gave the shots? A working mom. Who taught your kids at school? A working mom. Who answered the phones in millions of high rise office complexes? A working mom. The difference is that the majority of those working moms were near the bottom of the payroll pecking order.

  18. Jill says:

    I do agree with the point that this article is trying to make. That today’s world sucks sometimes. But the truth is that yesterday’s world sucked as well and in a lot of cases it sucked more. Generations are always going to say “the good old days.” But they are just trying to look to another place to cover up their insecurities about today. They had problems and issues then that we hardly think about now. The procedures mentioned in this articles were only made to protect our children. Yes, sometimes they are extreme. But they have saved and benefited many lives. The good days ARE today. quit complaining about it and do something!!

  19. melissa says:

    Hugo Serious, thank you.
    Let’s not all get caught up in the grand “good ol’ days” when African Americans were still fighting for basic legislative rights and women only went to college to “find a better class of husband.”
    Just because your memory is rose-tinted by white, upper middle-class suburbia dreams doesn’t mean others weren’t wallowing in the muck in 1957.

  20. Dee says:

    It’s funny how everyone wants to remember the ‘wallowing’ but no one wants to remember the ‘fun’ … you don’t have to be a white, upper middle-class suburbia dreamer to have fun. Those of us who don’t fit that mold and were too young to be involved in the ‘muck’ choose to fondly remember a childhood worth remembering … no matter how hard anyone tries to make 1957 sound absolutely horrible, you won’t take my fun-filled, good ‘ole days with school friends away from me. So there. If you are bitter about growing up in that era, don’t bring all of us ‘down’ because you feel that way.

  21. Mark's Jeep says:

    Scenario 9:

    Frank is playing ball with his friends when he hits a ball and breaks a neighbor’s window.

    1957 – Frank’s dad spanks his back end, sends him to his room and pays the neighbor for the broken window. Frank grows up to be a very thoughtful and caring person in the community.

    2009 – The neighbor sues Frank’s dad and they end up loosing everything. Frank’s family becomes homeless and Frank has to start stealing to help support his family.

  22. Dr P says:

    This page is ridiculous. Sure, a lot of the examples from 1957 maybe true, but nearly all the examples from 2009 are so far from reality its laughable. No doubt, the examples from 2009 HAVE happened; but the only reason we hear about these things is because they are so far from the ordinary that they become newsworthy. These examples don’t describe what life is like in 2009; in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if this page was written by a Fox News reporter. That is, this is nothing but conservative, gun-toting, American naivety at its best.

  23. Chase says:

    I completely disagree with one of these. Scenario 4. Sorry, but kids grow up with complexes if you beat them. I know plenty of guys from the late 50′s that were beaten. They’re good people and lead successful lives, but it’s completely wrong to beat your kid, and those people deserve justice.

  24. Michelle says:

    @John J probably because they didn’t realize that if it wasn’t spanking, it will be 5 years in wasted time and money in therapy.

  25. Ryan says:

    Hugo Serious – First off, it’s “college”.

    Chase – Being beat and being spanked are two different matters. I was spanked a whole heck of a lot as a child, I was bad, but the spanking weren’t the worse part, it was the waiting in the corner for 10 minutes, KNOWING it was coming… that was the scary part. Dads who knock their kids around, ya, that’s wrong, you going outside and picking the switch from the tree, taking it to dad, and then standing in the corner waiting for a couple lashes, you’ve learned that whatever you did wasn’t worth it. When your dad comes at you, pummeling your face and kidneys, and spitting on you before going to drink some more, you learn to despise your dad, have trust disorders, and the list continues… don’t confuse beating a child with punishing a child.

    Today’s parents are so afraid of going to prison for “beating” their child that the kids run free in the streets, knowing that there is little to no consequences, because all mom is going to do is yell a little bit and then go back to her soap operas. Today’s mom can’t swat their child’s behind at the grocery store for screaming and throwing a tantrum because people like you will call the cops.
    The mother has done nothing wrong besides get the child to be quit. But because the parents can’t discipline their children in public, they don’t take their children to public places. This leaves kids with no knowledge of social interaction and no clue how to behave in public places, so when they do go out they are horrible, or when they finally start going to school they don’t know how to make friends or sit still in their chairs, so someone decides to give them drugs to make them calm down.

    My father was sent to prison for “sexually abusing a child” because he was teasing and tickling my sister in a public place and someone like you decided he was molesting her and called the police.

    I’m an 80′s child, I’m in my mid-twenties. When I was a kid there was no such thing as ADD or ADHD or at least no one “had” it. Now you’re lucky to find a singe classroom in a school without one kid “having” ADD.

    This article obviously isn’t SUPPOSED to be 100% true across the entire country, it’s a notice of how far down hill we have gone that these things happen even ONCE.

    I am all for a mother making a conscious decision to do what is needed for her family. Some family’s don’t have the ability to have one parent home all the time, be it single parent household or parents struggling to survive due to the economy we are currently in, what with lay-offs continuing to sky rocket. I’m all for a mother who can stay at home all day with her kids, but if it’s possible, then they need to figure out a way to make as much time as possible for their kids during the evenings and weekends.

    /rant

  26. Kris says:

    I have to agree with Dr P. These scenarios are ridiculous. Whereas the ’57 ones might be a little bit more accurate, the 2009 ones are completely exaggerated. Every decade will have its ups and its downs, the good and the bad. As far as the ‘drugs’ reference goes….When I was in high school I knew people who struggled with severe depression and many other disorders. The medication they were on helped them function well enough that they were actually happy. I agree that doctors do over-diagnose ADD in children – whether it’s to get the money for the schools or just for a quick fix, I cannot say. But there are children out there who really do have ADD, ADHD, and Aspbergrs. The medication helps them function on a day-to-day basis so they can excel in a school setting. The medication even helps adults with the disorder to function in their workplace. And I think it’s incredible that we’re at a point in America where we are able to have an African American President. It show exactly how much we’ve progressed as a nation since 1957 (since that’s the year you’re referencing here.) There is so much more I could say, but this article is so absurd, I won’t continue.

  27. Chase says:

    Ryan – You’re right. When I read “his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt,” I pictured multiple lashings to the face. I had simple spankings as a kid, and rightly so, and I wouldn’t call the cops if I saw someone doing the same thing. In fact I’ve never heard of such a thing happening. But the one thing I disagree with is what you think about ADD. It wasn’t seen so much in the 80′s because it wasn’t diagnosed, not necessarily because there was more discipline.

  28. Hunter says:

    Really people?2009 sucks. Me and my friends say all the time that we wish we grew up in a different era. People back then had so much more fun and life was simpler. Now adays “fun” is trouble, and not to mention cops are always looking for any little thing to put against you. Then you have somthing on your record, then you have to pay fines, then you have to take classes, which cost money, and so on. I mean i could go all day why i would much rather live in the 50s, or any earlier time. Lets look at alcohol, why change the drinking age from 18 to 21? Most likely to get more kids in trouble. If somthing is illegal, kids are gonna want to do it. If it wasnt illegal, there really wouldnt be much glory to doing it. We had an exchange student from denmark(the drinking age over there is 16) and we were planning a party, and everyone was so excited because we were going to get to drink. He didnt see what was so special about it and we asked him how much he drank back in denmark, and he said, once in awhile, but not that much, its really not that big of a deal. So its almost like, every year, they make more rules, to get us in trouble, so we have to give more money back to the government. Im not even gonna get into the college bs, with loans and what not. But by listening to my grandpas stories, and all of my friends grandpas stories, i can honestly say, that our stories, will not be as great as theirs.

  29. DYSP says:

    ugh, the 50s seem A LOT more better than modern time

  30. Mike says:

    I was having a conversation about this exact topic just the other day…and it’s so very true. I grew up in the 70′s and 80′s and things were so much different then. In my opinion…the reason society is the way it is now…is because we lack most of the morals and standards we had before the gonvernment stepped in to regulate everything we do at home and in public.

  31. Paul says:

    I hope you all realize you will be watched now, for posting ‘fishy comments’ on the web. Me too, but then they have been watching me for years. I am a veteran, and you know how dangerous Homeland Security thinks we are.

  32. corbin says:

    Tracy Repchuk: Sorry to nitpick, but Ritalin is an amphetamine derivative, whereas Heroin is an opiate (Morphine derivative).

    I can agree with the sentiment of this oversimplified comparison — that things have changed a lot in the last 50 years, sometimes in absurd ways. These comparisons obviously pick scenarios that are favorable in a certain light. You can easily do the same in reverse:

    1: Timmy’s classmate comes down with polio.
    1957: Soon his entire neighborhood has polio and many of them end up dying, including Timmy.
    2009: The classmate doesn’t get polio, because we eradicated it over a decade ago.

    2: Sally gets raped and becomes pregnant
    1957a: She is “shunned and sent away,” as Miranda puts it, because she had the audacity to go and “get pregnant.” She lives the rest of her life in isolation and misery with her illegitimate child without a husband because no one will marry her because she has said illegitimate child.
    1957b: Sally gets a back ally abortion, and dies from the complications.

    2009: Sally goes and gets an abortion, gets counseling, tries to put her life back together.

    3: Joe Schmoe has some rant about how things were better back in the good old days.
    1957: The only people who will ever hear his rant are the people in immediate earshot.
    2009: Potentially millions of people can read said rant.

    Also, seriously, the most poignant comment on here is John J’s, reiterated here for effect:
    “I think it’s interesting that the kids from 1957 are the ones who have essentially made/changed the rules to what we have today. I wonder why?”

  33. JQ says:

    Oh, you young whipper-snappers. I like things the way they used to be. The old ways were better, seein’ they were all I ever what knowed! Time was, y’see when yer yungins what were misbehavin, y’all could just give ‘em a fine beat’n, but naw not these days not no more.

    Yeah, times were better back when everyone fired guns randomly into the air and directly towards one another, used violence in place of upbringing, ignored facts and turned to the good book for an exorcism spell when the young ones just wouldn’t stop crying. If you prefer to live in ass-backwards pre-scientific dark-ages type societies, I invite you to move to singapore or sudan where you can be killed for masturbating or burned as a witch for operating any piece of technology more complicated than a fork.

    It amazes me that people of such low mind are allowed to use technology that their small intelligence could never create (computers, the internet) to criticize what they don’t understand about their superiors. Your kind should be placed in a series of small, dusty southwestern frontier-style towns where you can all wear polo ties and keep your water in barrels and communicate via pony express, just the way you like it, while the intelligent world keeps on moving forward. kind of like how there are certain tribes in africa that just plain old haven’t heard of civilization yet, so we don’t tell them for fear that they couldn’t handle it. that how you should be treated :)

  34. Don says:

    128,000 BC: The earth is a wondrous place, filled with a rich diversity of life.

    2009 AD: The earth is a polluted mud-ball. Many of the species of life that once flourished are now extinct. Entire forest are gone and the oceans slowly dying.

    People are only interested in what they want. Mankind is incapable of improving anything other than the means to achieve his own desires.

  35. Daniel says:

    Unfortunately, this kind of foolishness is what results when simpletons are given simplistic analogies that have no basis in fact and bear no resemblance to reality, past or present.

  36. anonnn34 says:

    Why can’t people get it right? Ritalin does not make you calm, unless you actually suffer from AD/HD. Ritalin is an amphetamine. It is fracking speed! You take it in college because it allows to stay up for an extra night without sleep, and it can even be snorted for recreational stimulant abuse. Ordinary people who take actually get more restless, if anything.

  37. Capt. Turk says:

    Having been born in 1950, and growing up during that time period, I can say from personal experience that those times were much better. Sure, there were things that anyone can find fault with, but that is true of any age. If the faults had been corrected without the results that we have now, we would live in a much better world.
    We have given up a little thing called freedom, thinking that it would make us safer. We forgot that statement by Ben Franklin. “Those who would give up freedom for safety deserve niether, and will end up with neither.” Freedom is not free, nor is it safe. The mind set of this country has changed completely. We are no longer citizens valuing our freedom and our rights, we are subjects. We have allowed, and even expect, the government to keep up safe, and run our lives for us. We no longer are willing take the blame for our own stupidity or carelessness. In so doing, we have given up our rights to be called free men. Only lip service is paid to freedom anymore. The lives of all those great men that gave their lives willingly for freedom, have been wasted. Our affluence, and greed, have turned the subjects of this country into a bunch of spoiled brats that expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter.

    Our educational system has become a joke. We have gone from leaders in education, to being the laughing stock of the world. Desegregation in our schools was needed. We did it,, but,, and there is a big but there, instead of bringing the minorities up to the level of the whites, we’ve brought the level of all races down to the lowest common level. We’ve handicapped the teachers to the point they are little more than wardens now. They are not allowed to discipline the students and keep order in the class’s so they can teach. The students are so out of control teachers fear for their own safety in the classroom. When I went to school, if you misbehaved, or disrupted the class, you got a ruler across the head, or knuckles. If that didn’t get your attention, it was off to the principals office where you got a good paddling. The worst part was having your parents called. ( I would have rather the police been called than my parents. The police could only put you in jail, not dust your britches good.) That generally meant a minimum of one more paddling at home, and probably two of them. They didn’t call in the swat team. The teachers had the authority to maintain discipline, and they did. I hear all the talk now days about how wrong spanking is, and how it is abuse. A properly applied spanking is NOT abuse. It does not harm a child in any way. It just gets their attention. I got plenty of them growing up, and although I didn’t like them at the time, I see now where they did me nothing but good. I learned what a limit is. I learned respect and how to behave in public. I learned self control, and to take responsibility for my own actions.

    The police have gone from being the servant of the people, to being our enemies and masters. We have allowed our legal system to get totally out of control. and drive the cost of many things completely out of reason, because of the fear of litigation. We’ve allowed countless feel good laws to be passed that have done little, if anything, but fill our prisons and jails, ruined countless lives, and wrecked countless families. We have allowed the government to grow so big and over bearing, we are buried in taxes and regulations.

    Granted, some things are better now. We’ve advanced medically. Racism is no longer accepted to the degree it was. Our science and technology is much more advanced. But we have given up so very much of the good of the past, in the process. Personally, I would rather be back living in those days. What I see today absolutely sickens me. It sickens me enough that I’ve moved out of the United socialist police States of America to a country that is very close to what the UspSA was 50 to 60 years ago.. I’ve not regretted for one minute the things I’ve left behind.

    To the youth of today, I suggest you travel outside of the USA. You have no idea what you are missing. To the people of my generation, I can only ask, what the hell were you thinking?? Why did you become so fearful? What happened to your backbones? How could you become so lazy and apathetic that you let this happen? How can it be that your personal safety has become so valuable to you that you willing riveted the shackles and chains to your own legs?

    I want to apologize if this turned into a rant. I just hope that possibly it might open an eye or two. That it will spark something in the youth of today, and get them on the road to restoring the good that we once had, and have left behind.

  38. Dopey says:

    What the hell man! yeah the 50′s were the best what with people dying from Polio and small pox!

  39. Emu says:

    Ryan:

    “This article obviously isn’t SUPPOSED to be 100% true across the entire country, it’s a notice of how far down hill we have gone that these things happen even ONCE.”

    Since you didn’t write this article, I don’t think you are fully classified to say what it “means.” Don’t take that sentence as angry, just truthful.

    How I interpreted this article was it giving two scenarios, 1957 and 2009. 1957′s were “how it was” and 2009′s were “how it is.” We’re supposed to look at the 2009 scenario and say, “Yep, that’s pretty much exactly what will happen.”

    Like a previous person said, the 2009 scenarios only show up because they are noteworthy, not because it happens all the time. I’m pretty certain that somewhere in the 1950s there was at least one principal who was too strict, or one law enforcement agent who reacted aggressively.

    And about Scenario 2: I noticed no less than 6 fights occur in the high school I teach at last year alone. No SWAT team, no police, no assault charges. Parents were called, kids were suspended, and that was it. Looking over the rest of the scenarios, I find most of them are equally exaggerated.

    You still make plenty of good points though, Ryan, particularly about the difference between abuse and punishment.

  40. jack says:

    1957 – A black student is harassed and abused by his classmates because of the color of his skin. Administration does little to help him

    The 50′s were better if you were WHITE, IGNANT AND GOT GOOD GRADES. The author of this article is a fool, an absolute moron.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Well, I didn’t write it and it’s been passed around the web for awhile now. What I do find amazing is that over 40,000 people have come to my site to read the post… And I also find it fascinating that some readers are just as upset about the lack of scenarios as the one’s listed. Apparently the author didn’t consider including every aspect of race, religion, politics and sex when he wrote this.. what a fool, it could have been his life’s work.

  41. jack says:

    By the way, Turk, you are about as uneducated as you are bigoted. Freedom is something everyone deserves, but it seems to me that as long as your race is kept pampered everyone else can go screw. You patriotic metaphors do not hide your lack of real data. And no, its not “dem’ coons or mex-e-cans” fault that our school systems are relatively worse than they were back then. Our schools have not gotten worse, the rest of the world’s schools have gotten better. And colleges have gotten more competitive. And VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN IS NEVER OKAY, NEVER EVER EVER! Jesus, its the 21st century for crying out loud.

    “I SHOULD BE ABLE TO BRING MAH 12 GAUGE TO SKOOL TO SHOW ALL MAH FRENDZ :]”

    you people fail sooooo hard it’s not even funny.

  42. Mike says:

    To JQ
    Technology has nothing to do with the advancement of mankind, because mankind created technology…mankind advances mankind….hence technology has no bearing on how we act as a society….our technology does not create our laws, technology does not create our systematic issues…it’s actually quite the opposite…we create them as a species to accommodate what we have created. As far as intelligence.. put this in your superior intellectual mind… if there were no such thing as the human race… this world would be as it was 10′s of thousands of years ago… an environment in which pure life thrived….not an environment in which the life felt the need to control.

  43. Johnathon says:

    See, the article forgets the part about:

    Little Johnny leaves school at 3PM

    1957: Little Johnny arrives home to his mother who is cleaning the house up and preparing a nutritious dinner. Little Johnny is told to finish his homework before he can go out to play, listen to the radio, etc. When

    2009: Little Johnny’s mom works now because economic circumstances require two income house-holds. Little Johnny arrives home to an empty house and plays xbox while drinking mountain dew and eating pizza rolls for dinner. Does not do homework

    Little Johnny gets in trouble at school

    1957: Little Johnny’s mother was up at the school, Little Johnny was more afraid of the principal calling his parents than he ever is of the principal.

    2009: Little Johnny’s parents can’t leave work, leave discipline up to the school. The School doesn’t have the authority to adequately discipline Little Johnny. Little Johnny learns that it’s okay to piss around at school.

  44. Andrew says:

    I appreciate the sentiment of “simpler times,” but for me that was middle school. It was a time when I was joyfully ignorant. Before you attack the public schools, understand the problems that they face. We have more than enough money to go to war, but many schools don’t have enough money to ensure students have up-to-date books. Also, understand the difficulty teachers face when they try to instill ideals of justice in an unjust world, or equality in an increasingly class-driven country.

    If anything things have gotten better because problems are brought to the forefront and addressed. I understand that people get uncomfortable when the nation’s problems are brought into our living rooms, but there were many, many people suffering quietly in this author’s “golden days.” As simple as this sounds, the construction of the highway system in the US is part of the reason people were able to forget about the problems of the poor for so long. Before highways, your average white collar worker had to drive through poorer neighborhoods in order to get to work. After highways, we simply drive over them, or through them with elevated walls. Once the “white flight” occurs, there is no reason to address those problems. Now that an increasing number of people have access to popular media and the internet, new voices are being heard. Also, a new generation (mine included) of people who care more about other people than paychecks are beginning work, we’re calling attention to the needs of our nation and our world.

    Things were never as simple in this country as people want to believe they were. Take a historical tour where they mention the stocks. Stocks weren’t just for the sake of discomfort and vegetable hurling, if a person locked up didn’t have a good friend to watch out for them, the stocks were a hotbed of rape, and they would never know who did it.

    The 50′s were also an era when the use of sedatives spiked among the nuclear family. I mean, I know mom is supposed to be happy sitting at home, baking, taking care of the kids, etc…, but maybe she’s creative and driven and wants to be self-actualized?

    I’m a teacher and I’ve witnessed or heard accounts of nearly all of the events listed above. Granted, a gun on school property would definitely warrant some attention, but everything else is blown out of proportion. It’s time to put down the mythical American Golden Age and start moving forward. The past is just that….the past. Let’s move on folks.

  45. I obviously missed out on life. I don’t think any of these scenarios happened to me. In any event, to some degree, these are true, but to another degree they are not. Some things have gotten better, others were better back when. I suspect it’s pretty much a wash.

  46. Daniel says:

    “Daniel, just curious as to how old you are?”

    57.

    Old enough to klnow when the people reminiscing about the ‘good old days” have lost their memory, and their grip on present reality.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      I was guessing you for early 20′s based on the first comment. I’m 45.. and these scenarios, although Extreme, have struck a chord with many people in the 40+ bracket. Simply because they can relate it to events from their past and correlate to events in the present. Just because you didn’t experience anything like this, doesn’t mean the rest of us have lost our grip on reality.

  47. Pingback: High School 1957 vs 2009 | Censorship Sucks Balls

  48. Capt. Turk says:

    Jack,
    First off, you know absolutely nothing about me. Secondly it is apparent that you did not read what I wrote, or you interpreted to match your own assumptions.

    I am not uneducated. I happen to hold a masters in marine sciences. I take from your statement that you are of what is generally called a minority race. I know I’ll catch flack for the statement, but my observation, and I’m sure there are plenty that won’t agree, at this point in time, certain minorities are using the racism card far more than whites. I made absolutely no derogatory statements toward ANY race. I was raised NOT to be racist. I was taught to respect everyone till they gave me reason not to. I grew up on the same side of the tracks with the black kids.
    I never stated in any way that minorities are to blame for their predicaments, or for the lower educational standards. I blame the whites for not pulling the minorities up to the same level of standards that were already in place. Instead, we dumbed down the standards so the minorities wouldn’t have to work as hard. We promoted dependence, and laziness. We induced mediocrity.
    I was raised in a tiny hick town in Oklahoma. My father died when I was eleven. My mother raised two children on a social security check that barely bought enough for us to eat. Being from the wrong side of the tracks, I had no scholarships. No grants. No help. I worked from the time I was eleven, till I left home at seventeen. By the time I was seventeen, I was working three jobs and going to school at the same time. So, I was basically in the same situation as the minorities. The only difference being, while funding programs came into being for minorities, being white, there were none for me. I made my way up by scratching, fighting, and working as hard as I possibly could. The only help I received from anyone was being taught to hold my head up, respect others, and never quit trying. I never quite qualified for any government programs, so I learned to stand on my own two feet. I paid for every dime of my education, and still return to school regularly to further my education.
    My whole point with this? I didn’t get ahead by having someone shorten the ladder. I worked for every rung.
    It was hard, but I’m much better off for it. I fault the whites of this country for allowing the standards to be lowered. For instead of giving the minorities the extra help needed to get bring them up to existing standards, they lowered those standards. All they ended up doing is hurting everyone. I work with a number of young people today, college educated, that have difficulty with even basic math. They are unable to write a readable report. They speak as if they lived in the ghetto, and that includes far too many whites. Their basic skills are so poor as to be virtually useless. I see the results of our educational system every day, and it disgusts me. I work in industry. One of our biggest problems is finding people literate enough to effectively do the job.
    As far as you labeling me a bigot, I will concede that to a point. I am intolerant of lazy people. I very much dislike people that won’t stand on their own two feet. People that expect hand outs disgust me. I don’t include the disabled or elderly. It is our duty to care for the infirm. I utterly detest people that think the world owes them anything. If that qualifies me as a bigot, then I wear the label proudly.
    As for everyone deserving freedom. I don’t believe you deserve freedom if you are not willing to work, and fight for it. If you are willing to trade it away for the mistaken belief that it will make you safe, you don’t deserve it.
    The major point of my previous post, which it seems I fell far short of making clear, is that we have lost far too much of the good that was in the 50′s and 60′s. We’ve let ourselves become fat, lazy, dependent on government, and have forgotten what freedom means. The injustices of those times have been addressed. Not all corrected, but we are working on it. In the process, we have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. We’ve lost far too much of what made those times good.

    So Jack, playing the race card rant is getting very tired. I do believe you should hold your stones. It sounds as though you are far from being without sin when it comes to bigotry.
    Capt. Turk

  49. jack says:

    I feel like the fact that mom and dad are not forcing good behavior causes the kids to learn these things on their own. And honestly, the ideal situation is always going to be very good, but you have to realize that most of the country does not have good resources. It’s been like this forever. If you lived in Teenybop USA in 57′ good for you, but the rest of the country was suffering.

  50. Dan Nickerson says:

    1957 Little Danny writes an article about how good life was in the roaring 20′s.. he gets a A and his paper gets posted on a refrigerator for his family to see.

    2009 Little Danny posts an article on his blog about how good life was in 1957. He generates 40,000+ page views, starts multiple arguments, gets people fuming mad, race cards get played, drug advocates speak out, 50% say article is dead on, 50% article is hogwash. Danny wishes he posted this on fridge instead.

  51. Hunter says:

    Other countries schools have gotten better? Yea, only because they test the smart kids so that their countries seem to be way more intelligent than the USA’s. The tests they give in the USA to judge where kids are at mean nothing to the students that take them, so what motivation would they have to do well on the tests? All the kids in my class just filled in bubbles to get it over with, and dont say that they are worthless, because most of the kids went to major universities, one even recieved a full ride to Harvard. Im not trying to say the US school system is clicking on all cylinders, because its not.

  52. matthew says:

    whats odd is those kids of 1957 are making the rules for todays kids and the bad reactions are from them

  53. Doctor X says:

    Funny to see the leftists out in full force accusing others of racism and ignorance while engaging full-on in their usual racism and class-warfare baiting.

    The article had nothing to do with the contrast of medical technology between 1957 and today, so any comparison made in that vein is a straw man. Which is no surprise, because really, you on the left have nothing.

    But keep on screaming racism and ignorance. Keep on patting yourselves on your self-righteous backs about what you’ve done for the world so far. Maybe someone will listen to you one day outside your echo chamber.

  54. jack says:

    @ Dan
    Wrong again sir. I am white, 18, and I’m pretty sure you attributed the fact that schools are getting dumber to the desegregation of schools… Wait, let me just go back and read your rant…

    “Desegregation in our schools was needed. We did it,, but,, and there is a big but there, instead of bringing the minorities up to the level of the whites, we’ve brought the level of all races down to the lowest common level.”

    Up to the level of whites? REALLY? as if EVERY WHITE STUDENT GOT GOOD GRADES IN THE 50s?! Are you sure that is not racist? Where do you get this idea that school is somehow “Easy and stupid,” further, how can you say we “dumbed it down FOR the minorities?” How about we ADDED MORE CLASSES TO COMPENSATE FOR CHILDREN WITH POOR SCHOLASTIC SKILLS? I am IN HIGHSCHOOL, I’m sure your marine biology degree or whatever taught you a ton about life and modern society, but you have no idea what you are talking about! my school has 4 levels of every class. 4 levels, ranging from “you need serious help” to “these classes are so hard they are worth college credits.” They are still there, if your kid wants to succeed he can take these classes, but it is HIS CHOICE, the 50′s promoted squeeky clean morals and “mom and pop tuckin you in at night” but the kids still got messed up on drugs. With cell phones parents keep much better track of their kids, and I will be damned if you say that it is the schools faults or the colored faults for “dumbing down the system.”

    MAYBE IT’S OUR SOCIETIES RACISM THAT KEEPS THEM IN THE DAMN GHETTOS THAT FORCES THEM TO BE ILLITERATE, at least those kids get to TRY to go to school, and I’m sure you work for some college, but I sure wouldn’t want my kid working with you. Don’t call it a race card. It’s a problem. It’s fun being white, I know, because I AM white, but damn it all it is GOOD that we are helping people in need. I know your type. You “worked hard” and you are resentful of people who don’t have to work hard. I won’t take the fact that you had a rough life away from you but don’t be so cocky about it. You are not the first. Grow up, for god sakes.

  55. K Jenkins says:

    I’m 56. I feel very sad for young people today. They are growing up in a world which is sucking all the freedom out of them. Fear is being used to control and manipulate them. Fear of terrorists, fear of cancer, fear of crime, fear of the government, fear of corporations, fear of everything … and the more they buy into the fear and turn to someone to “take care of and protect them” the more freedom they lose their freedom and individuality. Young people we’re counting on you to rise up and rebel against the establishment but you seem to be asleep. Somehow you’ve been lulled into believing that Bush was the problem and now with Obama “all will be well”. Government which is no longer held in check and accountable by the people is the problem. Young people YOU are our only hope. Stand up and tell government to get out of your life.

  56. Capt. Turk says:

    Jack,

    First off, your age explains a lot. You’ve only just begun to get an idea of what the world is like even now. All you know about the 50”s and 60′s is what you’ve learned in school. You didn’t live them. Rarely does propaganda, and what you find in books match the actual history. As per the old cliche, the history books are written by the winners. I lived through those times. I saw them with my own eyes. I experienced the dumbing down of education, personally. Integration started in my school during my sophomore year. Till then, I had to really work to make passing grades. My junior and senior years, I coasted through, and rarely ever had to even open a book. I maintained a 91 average through both years. That’s the reason I was able to work three jobs, and go to school at the same time. I quit high school in my senior year. Economics forced it. Ten years later, I went back and got a GED. I never had to take even one class to pass it. At that time I took the SAT’s. The teachers were astounded when I rated an educational level of second year, third month, college level. There were several others my age that took the GED tests at the same time. They had similar scores. From there, I went on to get my masters.
    I would think that example would make it pretty obvious that there was a drastic change at that time.
    Remedial, and special assistance class’s are nothing new. There were a number of those programs even in the 50′s. You didn’t get passed just to get rid of you. There were plenty of kids who got held back, or went to summer school, until they were able to pass.
    The 50′s were a much gentler time. In the area where I grew up, drugs were virtually unheard of until several years after I left. We still had our problems. Although my state was dry, alcohol abuse was common. I had my first taste of moonshine whiskey at twelve years old. Yes, there were many more stay at home mom’s. We hadn’t at that time let government grow so overbearing, and tax hungry it took both parents working full time just to pay the bills. Unlike now, the police would do everything possible not to arrest you, and that even included the blacks. I can’t say what the inner cities were like in the 50′s. I didn’t spend any time there, and have only a cursory knowledge of what it was like. I’m sure they were much worse than my little hick town.

    “I’m sure your marine biology degree or whatever taught you a ton about life and modern society, but you have no idea what you are talking about!”

    Now that statement gave me a real chuckle, especially coming for an 18 year old high school student. My formal education is in Marine Sciences. It covers other than marine biology. My profession is a ship master. My real education came from experience. Not out of any school book, or class room. I’m not some ivory tower professor quoting from a book. Most of my education comes from direct observation, and many years of experience. I’ve lived and worked in more countries than you’ve been alive in years. I’ve personally seen racism and oppression that makes the USA’s version look pale by comparison. I’ve seen poverty that makes our worst ghettos and slums look like a virtual paradise. The history and school books don’t even begin to describe the facts. Wait till you have been out in the real world for a few years, done some traveling, and have seen for yourself. Then come back an we will talk about how the white man in this county oppresses minorities and keeps people from getting out of the ghettos. The USA has done far more to lift minorities out of poverty and ignorance than any country in the world. Granted, we still have room for improvement Even in the 50′s, and much more so today, anyone with the will to work hard enough can get out of poverty. Saying the white man is keeping people in the ghettos is pure bull. Lack of ambition, laziness, and a fatalist, entitlement attitude is what is keeping them there. I work with a lot of minorities, and many came from the slums and ghettos. None came from wealthy families. Most are not wealthy now. They do have good lives. They have educations. They support their families. What got every single one of them out of poverty is willingness to work. A lack of a fatalist attitude, and a refusal to sit down and whine about how oppressed they are.

    As I look out my window at this very moment, a perfect example stands a short distance away. A man from the slums of Lake Charles La. whose skin happens to be black A man who fought his way out of poverty. He holds a fairly high level supervisory position. Makes in the neighborhood of six figures a year. Has the respect and admiration of everyone that works with him. He got here by working hard, not laying down and crying oppression. . We have had many discussions on this very subject, and he expresses the same opinions as myself.
    I’m neither a teacher, nor do I work for any educational organization. There’s no money in for one thing. As I stated before, I work in industry. For many years I’ve held a belief in the old cliche, ” Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.” I happen to be one of the one’s that can, and get very well paid for it. Maybe that is cocky. I’m sure it’s not totally fair, but I’ve seen a fair number of people from the educational field try to actually do what they teach, and most fail, and end up going back to teaching because they can’t cut it in the real world. I don’t mean to denigrate anyone in the educational field. They do a very valuable job. My only real fault with them is lack of knowledge and experience outside of text books.
    As I stated before, and you will find, once you get out in the real world, text books, and history books, are written by the winners. They are twisted and heavily biased. Schools tend to follow government propaganda and only teach what they want you know. I lived from the 50′s till now. I personally witnessed may of the things in the history books. Rarely do the accounts in the books match what really happened.

    “You “worked hard” and you are resentful of people who don’t have to work hard.”
    That is a statement that I will have to agree with to a point. I don’t resent the people just because they don’t have to work hard. I’m resentful of the people that have myriad opportunities, and don’t use them. I am resentful of people that waste those opportunities by not working hard to make the best of them. it seems in many cases that being born with the so called silver spoon, is not a plus. When life is easy, it’s human nature to sit around and do nothing.
    While in my twenties, I worked for a man that was very wealthy. He owned several quite profitable business’s. He gave he son every opportunity imaginable. Sent him to college, and paid for it all. Set him up in several business’s. The son wasted it all. He never did anything but lay around and do drugs. He abused his wife up to the point of beating her so badly he broke her back. He stole from the business’s. He was constantly being arrested. He had absolutely no work ethic, or any other kind of ethic. He was an extreme example, granted, but I’ve obsevered examples in kind far more times than I have people using those advantages to their fullest.

    “Grow up, for god sakes.”
    Now that one is really a hoot! Son, an 18 year old kid that is still wet behind the ears, telling a 59 year old man to grow up shows just how immature, uneducated, and ignorant you really are. You are still at the “Hire a teenager while they still know everything” stage. Everything still looks black and white to you. You still don’t know enough to even have an inkling of just how ignorant you really are. The older you get, the more you will find that there is far more gray between black and white than you could ever imagine. I don’t begin to claim I know everything. In fact, the more I learn, the dumber I find out I am. Given another 20, 30 years, you will begin to understand what growing up really means.

  57. Capt. Turk says:

    K Jenkins,
    You hit the mark dead center.

  58. jack says:

    Turk

    Despite your wisdom you need to realize that you do not know what high school is like now, and by no means is this damn passage realistic. It’s ignorant and overly romantic. You can defend it all you want, but what it sounds like you are telling me is that you were better, not the times. Do I think I know everything? hell no. You are obviously more mature than me. I respect accomplished polished individuals. Do I Recognize ignorance in your posts? yes. This little list is so extreme, yet you support it because you are fond of the times. You can prefer the fifties, but bringing guns to school is not okay, and hitting your kids is DEFINITELY not okay. You think I see things black and white? fine. think that. Judge my sophistication on the fact that I am outraged that you agree with this paper, because damn it all if you wouldn’t defend your generation if this article stated the opposite. Let’s put the same spin on it.

    2009 – Bobby comes to school and is teased mercilessly by his classmates for being a homosexual. He seeks help from the guidance councilor who lends him a hand and comforts him.

    1957 – Who the hell cares about Bobby? He’s a homosexual.

    It’s based on propaganda, sure. It’s damn extreme. Will all the liberals who helped make our schools soft agree with it? Yes. I do not have any say in the matter, but don’t get cocky and say that American life peaked during your generation. Our generation is different. We tried to solve some of the problems your generation had. I’m sorry that most of the world isn’t as ambitious as you but the system has to work for everyone, and “slackers” have just as many rights as you do.

  59. Capt. Turk says:

    Jack,

    “Despite your wisdom you need to realize that you do not know what high school is like now, and by no means is this damn passage realistic.”

    I will concede the point that I do not know what high school is like today. I only see the results of the educational system today. The vast majority of youth fresh out of high school, and with diplomas, that I encounter on the job, are functionally illiterate. They barely are able to read. They have very little basic math skills. They can not compose a coherent and literate sentence. I have to admit, you seem far more literate than the majority I’ve encountered. i do hope that you are not the exception, and that only bad luck has brought only the dregs my way, but I doubt it.

    “Do I Recognize ignorance in your posts? yes.”

    I very seriously doubt you could recognize any ignorance in my posts. Is there ignorance there? Yes, there is. I’ve learned enough to have a far better idea of my own ignorance than you will ever know. What you see is a difference of opinion. Your opinions are based on what you have read, and what little experience you have acquired so far. My opinions are the result of having lived through the times in question. I’m sure there are some that are wrong. Even having lived through it, I don’t have all the facts. I have to base things on what I have observed, and experienced.

    As far as thinking I’m better. Not in the least. I had only one real advantage. I had parents that believed in me. I had parents that never put me down. I had parents that instilled the belief that you can accomplish anything your willing to work hard enough to accomplish. That was my only edge. I never developed the fatalist, entitlement mentality I see so prevalent today. I’ve never felt I deserved anything that I didn’t work and fight for. I, like others around me, succeeded because we would not quit, ever..

    Bringing guns to school? I’ll have to admit to doing that very thing, and also walking into the police station with a shotgun over my shoulder, and even into the chief of polices office. Many times I walked into the corner store with the same .410 shotgun. No one freaked. No one called the swat team. No one paid any attention to it, short of maybe asking me what kind it was. People weren’t paranoid in those days. No kid got a gun of his own till he had proved a sound knowledge of gun safety, and proved he was responsible enough to carry it. Actually that was one of the things my parents used to discipline me. If I messed up, and I lost my gun privileges. Almost any boy back then carried a knife, no one had a problem with it. Most of those knives would get you arrested today, anywhere, not just in school. Guns and knives are tools. No different than a hammer, a chainsaw, or even a screwdriver. You can kill someone just as dead with a hammer as you can with a gun. An automobile is far more deadly a weapon than any gun you can legally possess, and kill far more people. I won’t even begin to get into the guns and guns thing except to say it’s one of those rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Since I mentioned the Constitution, we can go for a round on rights. The Consitution guarantees certain rights. The main ones are, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life does not really need discussing. Everyone has a right to live. Liberty, you are free to do as you chose, short of infringing on the rights of others. Pursuit of happiness. You have the right to pursue it, not to it. If you want to set on your behind and expect someone else to hand it to you, your going to be real disappointed, and unhappy.
    Yes, slackers have the same rights as guaranteed by the constitution as I do. The constitution says absolutely nothing about any right to a place to live, a job, food, medical, a government check, or any other the other crap that politicians lie about to get the popular vote. They have no right to my help, no right to my respect, or right to my resources.
    I’ve always been ambitious because I don’t like living in poverty I like living in a nice three bedroom home with air conditioning and a pool. I don’t like living in a shack in the slums. I like to eat steaks instead of beans and rice. I like Jack Daniels rather than Mad Dog. Unless you were born to money, you don’t get that without a fair amount of ambition. Those that have no ambition, do not deserve, and will get no respect from me. No matter their race, color, or whether they grew up in a slum, or in a mansion.

  60. Brian says:

    Jack, your response to Turks statements shows another thing wrong with our country today, and that is political correctness. Stop trying to be offended by everything in this world. It seems quite obvious to me that the minority schools before desegregation had a lower standard of education, mostly due to the bigotry of the time. When desegregation was put into effect a choice had to be made: to lower the white schools to the standards of the minority’s school or to do the opposite. That’s not a racist comment, its reality. As a 20 year old engineering student I can say with utmost certainty that the former choice was chosen. I coasted through school while most of my classmates acted out, learned nothing, and hindered the quality of education for all.

  61. jack says:

    Brian

    Yes. Political correction is wrong. We should all live homogeneous lives in segregated communities so that mom and pop can run their bakery while Timmy runs his paper route and lil’ sue plays with her dolls. Best part is they are all white, so we don’t have to worry about crime! Tonight we are goin over to Reverend Bob’s to grill steaks and shoot cans off the fence with our unlicensed and dangerous weapons. heck, this sure is swell. I wish the whole world was like this…

    News flash. these towns were possible because they were isolated examples of Americana that were small enough to be contained and protected safely.The world is a crowded place full of different people. We tried to keep the US separate for a while, but it did not work because it was not fair. The rest of the world recognized it and said that they wanted a piece of the pie. When someone feels under appreciated or treated unfairly they retort. This is not a sensitivity thing, this is not a politically correct thing, it’s the real world. You HAVE TO BE PC. You just do. There is no reason not to. People get offended, and even if you don’t understand why they are offended you have to trust that they are sincere. Minorities do poorer in school. This is a fact. That does not mean that we can blame them, and it certainly does not mean they should have been segregated, but that is the thing. This purge was totally inevitable. Hell, it’s a good thing. It means that slowly they will catch up, and if they do not then oh well, but who is it that put them in such a rotten place to begin with? Whites started modern society, but they should not be accountable for taking care of all of it’s participants? And if you are arguing that my generation is inferior intellectually than good luck. Statistically, this generation is the best group of writers ever. Really, look it up. (http://techdirt.com/articles/20090904/0344536106.shtml)
    We write so much in our day to day communications that we can quickly address our audience and work out an essay that is perfect for the situation.
    Our school projects are like products. We have to use dozens of mediums, like sideshows, photographs, original artwork, and because of networks like Facebook we NEVER have problems figuring out what is due when. We see that everyone else is doing their work because it tells us, and we feel obliged because that is the socially acceptable thing to do. Because of the no child left behind act, NO CHILD IS LEFT BEHIND. We have workshops for those who’s scholastic skills are poor, and we have Advanced Placement classes for those who excel. We don’t use cursive, but I don’t think anyone is crying about it.

    And i understand that you guys feel a resentment towards our generation because of our attitudes, but this happens with every generation. We have an attitude toward the older generation naturally. I’m sure you all did it too, and I am sure it will happen to me, but it is not something that you can blame on us, or on minorities. We are in the middle of a cultural purge. Things will get better, and no, we will not be traveling back to 1957 for a while.

  62. Capt. Turk says:

    Jack,
    I’ve tried to be as gentle as possible in my previous posts. I now see that it was a waste of time and effort. Your last post has made it obvious that you are the typical spoiled brat that thinks he knows everything. You have a head filled with the politically correct, propaganda filled, distorted, feel good, and incomplete liberal clap trap that the schools try to foist off on their students as fact. You are soon to get a very rude and quite brutal awakening. As it stands right now, you do not have even a clue.

    If I was a betting man, I’d bet that you live at home and are supported by your parents. Your parents are relatively affluent. You’ve been given pretty much everything. You’ve never held a job or had any thing that could be called a real responsibility. You spend most of your time holed up in your room on the computer. You live in a major metropolitan area. You’ve never been anywhere other than the area you are in now. Pretty close?

    You are typical of so many youth. Filled with ideas how you, and your generation are going to make the world so much better. Well, we pretty much all had that idea at one time. A little inconvenience called life, and reality, tends to get in the way. You’re going to find out, unless you were born with that proverbial silver spoon, that it just doesn’t work that way. The real world is only politically correct on the surface. The world is cold, hard, and brutal. It’s highly competitive, and if you can’t cut it, you get left behind. If you get in the way, you will be slapped slapped to the side. There is no one going to mollycoddle you once momma’s apron strings get cut. You have a LOT of growing up to do.
    My father had a couple of sayings that he repeated constantly. The first was “All the book learn’en in the world don’t do you a bit of good unless you got horse learn’en to go with it.” Book learn’en is all you have now.
    The second was “Keep your eyes, ears, and your mind open, and your mouth shut.”
    You would do well to do as I did, and follow his advice.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      I for one am enjoying the “Capt Turk and Jack Show”.. Both of you are excellent writers.

      I just wish to say that the key difference here is not a generational one, but a lifetime experience one.

      One of my favorite quotes is “I wish I were a teenager again because back then… I knew everything” Most people would love to be able to visit their 18 year old self and give themselves a good smack in the head.

  63. Brian says:

    Political correctness doesn’t solve the problem. Only through through discussing our differences, our flaws, our strengths will we ever overcome race in our society. To be politically correct as to not offend somebody is not true freedom. And I don’t feel a resentment towards our generation (as I said before, I am a part of your generation), but I do believe that we are on a gradual slip in the wrong direction. Our generation is full of uneducated children who feel they are entitled to everything in the world, due in large part because they have never been denied any luxuries. This sense of entitlement and lack of ethic is, in my opinion, causing a degradation of our generation.

  64. jack says:

    Turk

    My parents are divorced. I lived with my mother for the first half of my life and her living conditions were so poor that we all moved into my fathers home. Without child support she has lost her home and now she lives in Boston taking care of a woman with multiple brain tumors and her family. I have always had to live with that guilt. My father has always been very tough on me and my siblings, and he has been borderline verbally abusive to all of us. Don’t you dare judge me. I have never had two supportive parents that “believed” in me. You are the spoiled one, “capt. Turk.” I’m defending something worth defending, while you are blindly defending something that died years ago. And you cheaply brought out the constitution to defend your beliefs.
    Again, grow up.

  65. Capt. Turk says:

    Ok Jack, I missed it a bit on the bet. I still hit it on parts of it.

    You have had it a bit tough. The huge divorce rates are one of the symptoms of what has gone wrong since 1957. Divorce was almost unheard of at that time. You DO still have two parents. Maybe not right there for you all the time, but still there. As I stated before, my father died when I was eleven. You say you have always had to live with the guilt of their divorce. That is a common statement from children from broken homes. You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty, or angry about. Sad, yes. Angry or guilty, no. Parents don’t get divorced because of something their children have done. They get divorced because they can’t get along for some reason.

    I know a good bit about the conflicts that broken homes can cause in a child’s mind. My sister and I, were abandoned by our natural parents when I was three. The couple that I refer to as my parents, adopted us. I had only seven years with my father before he died. All I ever knew about my paternal parents, until I was an adult, was that we were thrown out like a bag of trash.

    I suspect if you questioned all the kids in your high school you would find that almost everyone of them would make the same statement about their fathers. Tough, and borderline abusive. That describes most childerns view of any father that cares even one iota about them. With the anger and resentment I feel in your posts, I’m not a bit surprised at your fathers seeming attitude. He’s probably doing everything in his power to retain self control, and not firmly plant his boot up your behind. If you had any real knowledge of this world, you would see you have very little reason to be angry. You do have a roof over your head. You do have enough to eat. You have had a chance to get an education. You do have medical attention when you need it. You do have parents that love and support you, whether you realize it or not. Parents show their love in different ways. Many just don’t know how to express it verbally. Quit being so angry with everything, and everyone. Even at its worst, you are better off than 90% of the people in the world. Far better off. When you get to the point of living in an 8′ x8′ tin and cardboard shack with eight other people, sleeping on a dirt floor with no bedding or blankets, all of you eating out of the same tin can, and that’s only if you manage to find something to actually put in that can, having nothing but one ragged pair of shorts to wear and no shirt, no TV, no electricity, no clean water to drink, sleeping and living in filth and flies. Knowing that at any time some soldier, or the police, will come and arrest or kill you, then come whine to me how bad off you are. You have absolutely no concept of what it means to be bad off. Only a vague idea from what little you’ve seen on Tv. and read in books.

    As far a judging you, I stand by my statement. You are an imature, ignorant, and angry spoil brat. You think the past means nothing. Far too many people in history have made that same mistake, which, if you knew anything about history you would realize it. When we forget history, we are doomed to make the same mistakes again, and again. You think that 1957 was so bad. Yes, it had it’s faults. But, it had a very great deal of good. People were happy then. I never saw the anger that is so prevalent in today’s youth, even among the minorities.. Even the so called oppressed minorities that haven’t been brainwashed by a constant barrage of propaganda, generally have good memories of those times. There was generally much more freedom, even for the minorities. People didn’t constantly whine about how bad off they were. It was safe to walk down the streets at night everywhere but in the slums of the cities. An even there it was much safer. I many times walked through the black section of town in the middle of the night. I never worried about being mugged, robbed, or killed. Except in the inner cities, there were no gangs.

    As stated in one of the other members posts about having never witnessed any of the bad things reported in 2009, the things you hear bad about the 50′s were generally isolated incidences, taken out of context, exaggerated, and grouped together to make a political statement. I never witnessed any of the oppression that people make such a big deal about. I lived on the other side of the street from where the black section of town started. I grew up with the black kids. I went to their homes. I worked along side of them at several jobs. I played with them the same as with the other white kids. They were treated no different, by anyone, including the police, than the poor whites. I do know it happened. Just as it still happens today.

    Any group of people that are not of the ruling majority are going to be discriminated against. Today, the Muslims, and middle easterners are the group that is discriminated against. In the 80′s, it was the Vietnamese. Before that, it was the Irish, the Jews, the Polish, the Italians, and the Chinese. Even to this day, the American Indian is badly discriminated against. It’s human nature to discriminate against anyone that is different from your race, or culture. Human nature is no different today in 2009, than it was in 1957, or any other time in history.

    We must remember the past so as to hopefully not make the same mistakes again. A mistake is forgivable the first time. Only a fool turns a blind eye to the past and keeps making the same mistakes.

    As much as you don’t want to hear it, you are still no more than an ignorant, immature child. You have no idea what you are talking about, and no idea what being grown up even means.

  66. jack says:

    I never said I was grown up. I can hear it a million times. Tell it to me again, I am not lying to myself. I am humble like that. EVERYONE GROWS UP. I am as mature as 18, that is how long I have been alive. I will grow up as time passes, I never said I knew more than you. You make it sound so vital that maturity wins this argument, but you are getting too sentimental. I said that you are ignorant if you agree with this article, and you do not agree with this article. You agree with the authors politics. That is no reason to support such a blown out of proportion piece of crap that nay-says the vast improvements our school has had and praises the campynes of 50′s values. The past is extremely important, of course, but time never stops. It is important to retain knowledge of the past so we can learn from our mistakes and our triumphs, but the future is much more important than the past, and the present is most important because it ensures a successful future.Your past is not important to me, I DID NOT LIVE IT. You probably weren’t thinking about the roarin’ twenties when you were 18. Maybe you do now, but what you care about most is what was present when you were growing up. Right now is most important to me because I am growing up right now and that is what I need to think about right now to ensure my successful future. When I am 60 years old I will be glad that I was able to grow up during a technological and cultural revolution, and when some bratty kid gets in an online argument with me about how crappy my time was because all the races were slowing us down and we were too politically correct, I will not be thinking about the fifties. Life goes on. If I recognize good changes in the future I may even defend the brat who thinks he knows everything.

    And no, you do not know my father. I am spoiled. My dad is very generous, I love and respect him but trust me, he has had it worse than you. He has some severe mental problems. His dad died when he was young too. My parents divorce was so harsh that he was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder. His paranoia rubs off on us, as does his depression, mood swings and bad attitude. Stop making generalizations about me. You are running out of arguments and attacking my character. Anyone as mature as you would have quit this damn argument days ago . I am persistent, and immature, and your the big ego who knows what has and what will happen, yet here you are, calling me a hooligan, just like ol’ Billy did from his porch when you stepped on his lawn. People never change.

  67. billy bob says:

    Typical conservative exaggeration.
    We don’t have it any harder than back then.
    Our culture changed, and Americans are too uncreative to figure out innovative ways of handling problems.
    I blame religion.

  68. Capt. Turk says:

    Jack,
    I’ve keep responding mostly out of pure boredom. You have been entertaining. I am on a job where, for the last few days, I’ve been having to standby, waiting on another part of the job to complete. Normally, I would never have responded in the first place.

  69. Capt. Turk says:

    Billy Bob,
    If you meant my posts, I’m very much an anarcho-libertarian. If you are not familiar with the term, and I’m not sure I spelled it right, it is a cross between an anarchist, and a libertarian. I absolutely detest government and most everything it stands for. I do recognize the use of at least a VERY limited government.

    I very much agree that religion is one of the major problems with society. Being an atheist, I believe the world would be a much better place without it.

  70. Dan Nickerson says:

    I was about ready to make you guys your own blog.. CaptTurkandJack.com, would be great reading and a moneymaker.

  71. jack says:

    I hate the world sometimes.

  72. Capt. Turk says:

    Good one Dan. I got a good chuckle out of that one.

    I almost wish I had the time to continue this.. but, alas, and alack, the wolves are baying at my door once more….. I bid you adieu.

  73. nicole hilliker says:

    i wasn’t in 1957, but i do agree that things have gotten out of hand

  74. steve o says:

    ok ive read every comment one here so ill try not to make this long. first well do some back ground. im 22 male disabled veteren suffering from depression adhd acute dyslexia and N.O.S. (not otherwise specified, i show treats and trends of multiple disorders etc. schitzo, narracsim, dependent, anda few other) now i grew up constantly moving so ive been around the world by the time i was 10 lived in every regoin of the USA. ive watched the people around me all my life. now first the drug issues with what i have you want to know what medications i take.. none i refuse to take ills i used to be on zoloft 20mg for my voilent mood swings and adderall 75 mg (stronger form of ritallin) for my adhd which they kept jacking the dose cause my metabloism would burn off the pill fast and id started to get past the drug. now i hated these pills with a passion cause they made me not me so i stopped, oh it was fun growing up and welll get to punishments next. alas to this day i struggle with my own mind and its demons but i force my self to see past everything my mind makes up i force my self to have a good time with out hurting those around e. and i times i force my self to be still so i can get closer to things (i love hunting on foot)

  75. jack says:

    @ Dan

    Haha that’s good. I don’t dislike Turk, I hope he doesn’t dislike me. And yeah that would be a fun if not exhausting blog. seeya later Turk.

  76. steve o says:

    as for my punishments growing up was a warzone, i was bounced from my own mother to live with my father cause she copuldnt handle me (extreme problem child theft assults arsone lieng cheating you name it… i was 8) so my father takes me in now the older generation remeber kneeling in the corner with a broom stick under the knees they remeber soup in the mouth for swearing or lieing or hot sauce for that too. i say remeber cause its now considered child abuse. well it got to the point i drunk an entire large bottle of tabsco chugging it infront of my father for lieing (never gave me that punishment again cause he liked his hot sauce) brushing my teeth with dove hand soap for ten minutes infront of my step mother for lieing (that taste dont go away) spanks started as at 8 years old a bare hand spanking some times a smack on the back of my head to my dads favorite pressure points like the ear the back of the neck and the collar while he was talking to me. went to belts sticks and by the time i was 16 he broke a 2×4 across my back side still didnt learn i was stobborn hard headed. so he comes up with a plan (being grounded never worked i didnt sleep much so id wait for them to sleep then id do what i wanted or if they werent home i memorized settings on everything (mind you adhd gave me something useful the only time im calm is when im paying attention to three or more things, so id watch tv while grounded while listening for my parents) he would make me from the time he got home till i went to bed (when he told me to) i was reading my school books copying the dictionary or writing reports on what i read in the encyclpedias mind you i still watched tv by the sound of it i knew what was going on. well when i graduated basic my folks identified me not by my face but by the scars on the back of my head from my father back handing me into windows walls and corners of window sills. (mind you after ward wed talk about why we went through this head clean my head wounds bandage me up and send me to bed after he made sure he didnt give me a concusion for we have the same temper ive noticed over the year) but all in all while me and him spent most of our lives at war with the other and i still wont come with in an arms 5reach of him and not be twichy and nervous i know hes there if i need him to help out and me has to help me get my car back on the road and get my lisnece back a few times. i love him for it because now i know tough love. i walk around looking at the kids the are rude disrespectful lazy who dont say please or thank you or ma’am/ sir and its sad the kidds that do what they want cause their not afraid of the conscences they never got pushed into submission they aint worried that theyll be introuble hell the prison systems are a joke i know this. back in the day of my grand parents (we talked of this.) but capitol punishment hanging and firing squad are “to inhuman cause they fell pain” while lethal injection is easier (but alot more expensive then a bullet or a rope) and people want to get ride of it ..its punishment its suppose to hurt. in middle east theft gets a hand removed. singnapor public canings still happen. and they work. now yes life back then was hard but it made you stronger it was better cause it taught respect pride and disapline 1959 while a bit backwards on some things like race and shunning. while to day those things are down but were more disrespectful less honorable more me me me then the cummunity. scene 1 john rapes lucy 1957: lucy’s family and cops hunt john down with dogs and shotguns or another form of extreme depending on where you are . 2009 john gets 15 years in prison a consolur and put on a list, john john now 30 realise he made friends in prison does it again.

    crime has gone up sence 1960 part indue to parents not disaplining part in due to the prison system is lack because people complain about inhumanity of punishments. bring back the displine of the 50-60s but keep the knowladge of today and enforce the feats of martin luther and malcom x.

  77. catzilla says:

    Well, I am a computer science student in my third year in college, I am 19 years old. (By the way, why is Jack 18 and still in high school?).
    I am the spoiled brat Turk described – both parents present, easy roll on life (so far), living in NYC.
    However, I totally side with Turk. From what I remember, the public school system is in a pretty sad state, and I hear it becomes worse every year. Misbehavior in classrooms is not corrected in any way – teachers endure the disruptive students, and not even call the school security to drag them out anymore, because that became illegal (as in “no child left behind” illegal, even if the child wants to be left behind).
    I’ll tell you a short funny story, with regards to a 6th grader brining a shotgun to school to show and tell.
    Once, in 11th grade, I forgot a small pocket screwdriver in my pocket, and brought it to school. Here in New York, there are metal detectors at school entrances (crazy eh, talk about freedom and security). That screwdriver was so small it didn’t get detected by the metal detector (they set the sensitivity value pretty low, seeing that students usually have some amount of metal on them). Anyway, I head off to my Spanish class for an midterm exam. I finish about 15 minutes early, and sit there bored with nothing to do. I put my hand in my pocket – oh joy, I found a screwdriver. I took it out and started screwing around with it, quietly. The teacher immediately called up security, which took me away to the dean’s office, where I sat idle until my parents came to pick me up.
    The screwdriver is about 2,5 inches long (including the handle).

    Oh and by the way, in high school, I rarely if ever did homework and pretty much coasted through all the classes with a whopping 89 average. I did usually score high on tests, though.

    Well, I lost track of what I was preaching, and off I go doing my statistics homework.

  78. Lynne Gordon says:

    Capt Turk, I was right there with you until you mentioned that being white you were “in the exact same boat as a black person” at the age of 17 when you held 3 jobs.

    What year was that? 1974? Were we no longer racists in 1974? Was it dead?

    I do not believe that you hold a degree of any kind because I am watching you hiding out behind your self-professed superiority and blaming blacks for the ills of society.

    True you never come right out and say it. You always attempt to leave yourself room to wiggle out because you fear being outed as a racist…so you dance around the issue and make snide remarks behind the backs of the black people you may know.

    You are not fooling them. They know.

    And at no point int he history of the American experience will an ignorant white person be equal to an intelligent black person. He always has been and always will be considered superior as long as people like you are around.

    I am sick as hell of whites like you who enjoy the conforts of being white, hide behind a half-assed profession of liberality, and fall on your knees every day to thank God that you were born white.

    The real shame is that you will probably be on your death bed before you stop and look over your history of racism before you come to understand how much damage you have done. Before you see the silent racism that runs in the veins of your children because you bred it there. And as your life is ending, your only legacy to the world will be more silent hate, racism and stupidity.

    You disgust me.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Lynne, nowhere do I see Turk’s quote “in the exact same boat as a black person”. Yes, he alluded to similar situations growing up. And he’s already stated he’s an atheist so he’s not thanking god for anything. I suppose it would make me a racist to say I don’t think Turk’s a racist. I will say that the most hate I’ve seen so far in this thread has been in your comment.

  79. Dragonfire says:

    Ever notice how the more we step away from nature and natrual foods the more disturbed society gets. We eat and drink more and more garbage all the time ( Aspertame MSG sucralose ) just to name a few all this stuff in one way or another afects your brain get informend do some reaserch. Vacines are our biggest problem the poisons they put in there ave been linked to many problems such as ADHD Aspergers Syndrom my oldest son has Aspergers Syndrom linke to Thimorasil an ingrediant in many Vaccines. It is made of 49% ethyl mercury a known nuro toxin.

    Myabe just maybe do you think that this could be part of the problem that we face today.

    I have asked myself why would they do that? and the best answer I could come up with is Healthy people dont by drugs. And look at all the mony that is made just from cancer research. And just about evrything causes cancer. hmmmmmm

  80. catzilla says:

    Lynne Gordon, what Turk was saying, is that the level of education was brought down after desegregation, and you CANNOT deny that. What was good before is now bad – how is that good? Instead of leveling the standard at a high level, they lowered it down.
    Also, is that all you got out of his multiple speeches, that blacks are responsible for everything that’s bad in our society?
    No, all he was saying that there are some people who are willing to work, and pull themselves out of poverty, and that there are other people who depend on government funding.
    The Chinese that came to USA in early 20th century are pretty well-established, despite at first working on constructing railroads and EXTREME low pay. That’s within 2-3 generations. Blacks were granted adequate rights at about the same time. However, while some of them used that opportunity and brought themselves up on the social ladder, others keep whining about some debt and want to receive, but never to give.

    I’ll tell you why there are some stereotypes about blacks though.
    Example.
    I closely know someone who worked in a local assemblyman’s office – that’s where everyone comes to complain from the whole neighborhood. I was told of a nice story:
    A woman comes in, requesting that her government check be raised up higher. She has 6 kids, she is not married not has she ever been, and is pregnant with a 7th. Can you guess the skin colour?

    Can you accuse me of racism or distortion of facts? I don’t think so, but you can try.

  81. Todd says:

    It is so sad that we americans always have to be so sensitive to every one. Today we always have to worry about every ones feelings. Then its is racist or we are not poltically correct. If people don’t like it go back where you came from.

  82. gungho says:

    Dragonfire you talk complete and utter bollocks. There is no more evidence to link vaccines with ADHD and Aspergers than there is to suggest eating breakfast will give you a stroke, 99% of people who have had a stroke have eaten breakfast, conclusive evidence.
    The study that started the whole ‘vaccines cause autism’ debate was a nothing more than an anecdotal link between 12 people, not exactly conclusive.
    And to suggest people not take vaccines is simply criminal – do you have any idea how many lives have been saved by vaccinations?
    Please buy a copy of Bad Science by Ben Goldacre (British medical doctor and journalist) and read it, here is an extract http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

    Also MSG is an additive but it is natural, it has been used in Asian cooking for centuries, as an extract of seaweed called glutamic acid. Monosodium Glutamate is a type of salt (the sodium glutamate bit) and used to be extracted from seitan (extracted wheat gluten) another centuries old Asian food.

  83. jack says:

    Catzilla… What you explained is common of POOR people. Although it has become a stereotype because most minorities are poor.

  84. jack says:

    @lynne gordon

    HIGHFIVE SISTA

  85. stevehops says:

    Scenario 1:

    Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck’s gun rack.

    1957 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack. Later Jack’s uses his gun to threaten a black man who is dating a white woman.

    Scenario 2:

    Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

    1957 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins.. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies. Because Johny’s anger problems aren’t dealt with he has lifetime of mental problems. He beats his wife and kids, which no one reports because it’s 1957. With a win under his belt, Mark becomes the new school bully and terrorizes younger students for the next four years.

    Scenario 3:

    Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.

    1957 – Jeffrey sent to the Principal’s office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again. But because his treatable learning disability is ignored he never does well in school and ends up pumping gas for the rest of life. Sad really, because it turns out he was a genius who had the cure for cancer.

    Scenario 4:

    Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt..

    1957 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman. He beats his wife and children when he gets angry because its the only thing he knows. He hates his father and deals with this conflict through heavy drinking. When he beats his own son the boy runs away and joins the army. He is killed in Vietnam.

    Scenario 5:

    Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

    1957 – Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock. Mark sees that smoking is cool and takes it up himself. He dies of lung cancer at the age of 43.

    Scenario 6:

    Pedro fails high school English.

    1957 – Pedro has to work to support his family so he can’t go to summer school (which wouldn’t take him anyway because it’s 1957 and concept of summer school didn’t come into fashion until the late 60s). He drops out of school and never really learns English; neither do his children or grand children.

    Scenario 7:

    Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.

    1957 – Ants die. Because Johnny’s odd, sadistic behavior isn’t recognized as a cry for help, he becomes the Zodiac killer (true story!).

    Scenario 8:

    Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

    1957 – In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing. Meanwhile the coach is having sex with 12 year old girl and no one reports it because it’s 1957 and people don’t talk about such things.

  86. Alistair says:

    Love it, very simple and very true, and unfortunately how very sad.

  87. catzilla says:

    Why are most minorities poor? They get more opportunities than whites nowdays.
    Also, you did not address my chinese example.

    Why keep screwing around and getting illegitimate children that you know you cannot support? Yes, there’s no way out now, but she wasn’t born with that situation, was she?

  88. connie says:

    You can have all the opportunities in the world but without proper education it all really doesn’t matter. There are many diamonds in the ruff in so many low income schools but because the city’s that are “poor” do not have the resources like the schools where kids don’t “have to” work so hard because the family is taken care of the minority children do not get much more that a 1957 education and opportunity… Reading , Writing, and arithmetic … Of course there are special programs and sponsorships but it does not compare to the everyday program and scholarships kids in better schools receive. So thus minorities stay poor. $400.00 a month and $200.00 in food stamps to support 2 children and an opportunity to go to the local food bank and goodwill is hardly an opportunity. I am a minority and the best opportunity i received was getting my college books paid for because as a young adult i went into debt trying to support myself and my child so i didn’t qualify for loans. and yes birth control was an option but because no one ever took time to educate my mother on it she never spoke to me about it. she grew up in 1957 and a little Mexican girl was not worth the birth control talk in school… Hell as a matter of fact her being Mexican they probably assumed all she wanted to do was get pregnant.

    Its like putting a 3 course meal in front of a child who dose not know how to feed himself and saying it is his fault he died of starvation.

    Many of the things that are available to minorities are hand outs not opportunities. and hand outs are temporary. And the opportunities we do receive are only open to those who are on the verge of death suicide or drug abuse or homelessness.. the “poor” people you speak of are meaning “most minorities” the middle lower class who work their ass off for minimum wadge and society is just fine with us staying in that position in which you describe as “poor” so we fall in a category where we are not fully successful as members of society however we are not unsuccessful enough to receive these so called “opportunities”

  89. catzilla says:

    Problem with the US is, the lower middle class DOES have to work very hard, but with that, gets just a little bit more than people who lazily sit at home and do NOTHING (except make up diseases so they may get disability).

    Talk about opportunities in education… I didn’t get any special treatment for being white in school. Some crazyness here and there, but nothing major that would land me into trouble. I paid attention in class (when the teacher talked about something I did not yet know), took tests, received good grades and went on to college. Every single other student in my 4600-student school had the exact same opportunity, except some did not want it, with a majority of black kids. No doubt, I knew some smart black kids in school, who did their work just like me, and there they are right along with me at a private university.

    The opportunities are there, it’s just that some people aren’t willing to commit to work and take those opportunities.
    Oh, and yes, sex education is a must in schools, along with free condoms (my no-so-top-of-the-line public school had them).

  90. Chris says:

    Ridiculous, stupid chain e-mail, honestly. Hyperbole is extremely slanted in one direction (and that’s being tolerant; some is just outright made-up nonsense) while all sorts of other problems that plagued society are conveniently ignored.

    Sure, some people overreact to spanking today. Back then, a lot of beatings were ignored, never mind the molestations that were kept quiet.

    Let’s not forget segregation.

    Children unfairly treated because of genuine learning disabilities that can be treated today (dismissing all behaviour problems as kids “just having energy” is ludicrous).

    Today fights escalate to genuine violence. If that were not the case, there would be no reason for zero-tolerance rules. Maybe if the people that were parents and kids in 1957 were better citizens we wouldn’t have the underlying social problems that lead to this?

  91. Dan Nickerson says:

    This post is bringing out all kinds of interesting comments which I’m not going to approve. If you want to drop a racial slur, the f-bomb or just spew hate.. your comment won’t get approved.

    One I found entertaining was someone accusing me of posting old emails on my site for ad revenue, calling me a derogatory name and stating that I can’t create my own original content.

    This on a site filled entirely with my original content except for this post, and used primarily to promote my original content products and services.

    I had no idea this post would generate this level of comments and we’ll see how the comments evolve. I don’t wish to see this thread digress, but good solid debate is always enlightening.. But in my experience, directing hate at someone because you disagree with them, is about the least productive way to get a point across.

  92. Anonymous says:

    Because these aren’t blatant generalizations, the 2000 generation did not live in the 50′s so they cannot say what schools were like then and neither can the 50′s generation have anything but an opinion of what goes on today. Both cases are 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of what happens, you cannot honestly believe that because you read in a newspaper/saw on TV/heard on radio that you knew what actually occurred that caused whatever event.Times change, the SWAT team could have been called because of previous gang trouble in the school, this sentence long “facts” have nothing that actually goes past the surface of the situation. Why don’t we instead of bickering and stating that the past was better(an opinion) try to contribute to improve the present.

  93. Jono says:

    Ahh good old 2000s

  94. Danial says:

    I get the point… but do you have to be so silly in your “2009″ exaggerations?

  95. Mike Pooposterous says:

    The post essentially highlights some of the changes in the world when the weak-spirited or politically-motivated reach positions of influence. When normal people ran things, we had normal problems. This also is a good example of how massive political and social changes can be implemented over time when few or none of those changes would have ever passed casual review if stated in their future reality. All of those scenarios would have been ignored as astonishingly over-wrought fiction in 1957 while today they are merely sad truths. They are sad truths because changes are made in small doses and people are encouraged to distract themselves with entertainment and financial burden.

  96. Mallory says:

    This angers me so much. Some of the 2009 scenarios have gone past the point of “exaggerated” into complete and utter lies.The one where the child can’t sit still makes it sound like they drugged him completely, just like that. That NEVER happens. He undergoes tests, and is prescribed the correct amount of medicine to allow him to focus better in school. He will NOT turn into a zombie!

    The gun scenario is probably correct, but I think it is justified. I would not feel safe walking around school knowing that someone who dislikes me and has a temper is holding a gun he brought in.

  97. Charlotte says:

    So the good ol’ days of the fifties were fun. For most people. My mom was born in the fifties, and even though she was too young to really take in the culture, yeah, it was fun. I was born in the early nineties, so I’m in high school now, and really, things aren’t that bad. I’m among the group of people who thinks that the drinking age should be lowered so that high school students won’t care and then won’t go out and get plastered and also the group that is for legalizing medical marijuana. And yeah, some rules seem a little arbitrary and extreme, but they make sense.

    Let’s say that Johnny did bring his gun to school, exposed. He doesn’t mean anything by it. Everyone who knows him knows that he doesn’t mean anything by it. But it’s still very easy to misinterpret. And about discipline: my uncle spanked my three-year-old cousin once, and I doubt he’s ever going to do it again because it took a month to regain his trust. I can’t remember a single time in my childhood when my mother or father had to raise their voices and my sister and I grew up happy and completely functional. There are a lot of freedoms we have today to go with the restrictions, such as individuality. Tools such as the Internet allow people to find groups of people who they can relate to, so they’re more encouraged to be different.

    About drugs: drugs can be a good thing. My sister who goes to Harvey Mudd College, which has a rigorous academic system, to say the least, has a friend with ADD. Every night, when her medication wears out, she employs several different methods of keeping herself entertained. On the flip side, I have a friend who was diagnosed with depression once, and she said that the pills she was given made her feel nothing at all, which was worse than being depressed. So, despite the overuse of medications, they are sometimes a good thing.

    About over-the-counter drugs: People take sudafed, ibuprofen, etc. to school all the time. You think we’re going to tell our teachers or the media about it? Kids get the news that someone has brought ibuprofen to school, and sometimes a girl with PMS cramps will ask for a dose, but we’re all very careful around the authorities.

    About fighting: Johnny and Mark may have gotten into a friendly fight. Or Johnny could have continued to pummel Mark long after it was clear that he was the winner. There are organized sports now where you can beat up your friends, such as the wrestling team, and there are moderators there to ensure that the fight is fair.

    About legal action: When I was younger, my sister’s friend rolled a bike down the street without actually riding on it and broke the headlight of a neighbor’s car. He was very sorry and his parents payed their neighbors for the damages, with separate consequences for him. This is the same as when people get into car crashes: they exchange insurance information and everything turns out okay. Would you please stop thinking that everything today is so severe?

    About compassion: Who says that Mary would be turned in for sexual harrassment? Chances are, if Johnny was small enough to fall down, he wouldn’t have seen a hug as anything more than an attempt to comfort him. And her coworkers probably know her, so they would have understood that she was doing what she thought was right, so long as she hadn’t acted creepy in the past.

    In the 1950s, there were just as many problems as now. Nobody talked about them, but they were there. Just because the facade is good, that doesn’t mean that the underlying truth is just as pleasant. Let me put it this way.

    Charlotte gets good grades in high school and applies for college. She is a normal, intelligent, caucasian girl and she knows that her friend Johnny’s application isn’t as good as hers.

    Scenario 1:

    1957: Johnny is accepted to the university because he’s male.

    2009a: Charlotte is accepted to the university because she is interested in math and science.

    2009b: Johnny is accepted to the university because he is interested in liberal arts.

    2009c: Johnny is accepted to the university because he is a member of a minority.

    There was unfairness then. There is unfairness now. Only, now, the unfairness is exposed and admitted to. That’s the way that change comes about.

    Scenario 2:

    Johnny is gay.

    1957: He never comes out because it would be too dangerous. The matter is never discussed and he feels alone.

    2009: He joins his school’s gay-straight alliance and receives support from all of his friends.

    Your examples are correct (somewhat). My examples are correct. There are changes. Some of them are good. Some of them are bad. We’re all working on building a better society; of course there will be problems along the way. No one solution is right for everyone. But if everyone is going to keep arguing over whose era is better, nobody will ever get anywhere.

  98. Ashley says:

    This is so on point it hurt. Political correctness and health and safety ave completly destroyed us

  99. Mike says:

    If you have ADD you cant just sit still, and paddling/hitting a kid with a belt are ineffective forms of discipline, in that even if the kid behaves they behave only out of fear, a.k.a. an unhealthy relationship

  100. Kristi says:

    Though there’s a lot wrong with society now, there was alot wrong with it back then too. We will never have a perfect society. The only thing we can do is recognize what’s wrong now and fix it. There will always be people that aren’t happy with the changes, and people that advocate the changes. All you can do is choose your side or opinion, be open-minded, and be friendly about it. There’s no reason to be angry at the ones that don’t think the same way you do. Debating is one thing, but angrily arguing is another. Anger will no solve anything. Its better to just pick yourself up and live than complain about how bad you have it. And when things are bad enough, try to change them.

    Personally, whether it’s 1957 or 2009, I wouldn’t be comfortable if someone brought a gun to school. Or hit me with a belt (they hurt!). But seriously, the worst I saw back when I was in high school (only a few years ago) when a fight broke out was a policeman was called, and only because the one kid wanted to press charges. They were both suspended and life went on. Also, I brought Tylenol to school once and got caught… all they did was take it away and told me not to bring it in without a doctor’s note. Most teachers didn’t even care as long as I wasn’t selling it. Hahaha.

    I guess it really doesn’t matter when you grow up, but how you handle it. Life will never go back to 1957 attitudes, and in 40 years it’ll be nothing like 2009. We adapt, grow, and move on, regardless of what year or generation it is.

  101. John Wilde says:

    I firmly believe that ADD stands for Adult Discipline Deficiency. I am willing to believe that some children may actually have something called Attention Deficit Disorder. But by and large, for the most part, I feel that it is way over diagnosed because it is a lot easier to medicate a child than it is to actually put the time and effort in to making a child mind

  102. Harry Barracuda says:

    You missed in Scenario 7: “Johnny is handcuffed and blindfolded and sent to Guantanamo bay, where he is not even charged, let alone denied a trial, and left to rot for years”.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      @Harry there was already a Scenario 7, you mean 9? Did you miss the first part of that scenario? Johnny is caught in an apartment with 50 IED’s or Johnny is captured on the battlefield after a tense shootout which claimed the lives of 3 marines…. then handcuffed and blindfolded.. Or the last part of that scenario. Johnny is released from Guantanamo returns home, and uses his IED knowledge to kill 25 troops within 30 days or release. (fyi, 10 soldiers were killed today in Afghanistan)

      Obama’s not even willing to close Guantanamo right now.

  103. Bobs Your Uncle says:

    Hi,

    I would like to say straight away that the cases your present are very biased towards the 1950′s. I very much doubt FBI, SWAT and the other services would get involved as quickly as stated.

    I think the key point you are trying to display is the silly amount bureaucracy, lack of common sense within the world and overreaction to events.

    However there are some important points to note, how we ended up in this position and that most probably could be attributed to the generation within the 50′s and early 60′s growing up. Not one set of children from a generation have ever been so liberal and no such campaigns as seen in the past will probably ever happen again in western developed countries. Fighting for rights away from corporal punishment is schools a good example of this, at the time hurting a child with a belt because they did not do as they asked could be denoted as immoral. As such, the race of humans wanted to become more moral and removed what would be described as an immoral act from their routine. Perhaps in the aim that children should (if taught well enough) will always be engaged with the subject matter and not misbehave.

    This type of assumption was made my a general public consensus away from the actual educational system it effects and now this type of example has been pushed further, where teachers cannot touch, grab or control a misbehaving student without the fear of losing their job.

    In posing such an example I assume you preferred the 1950′s, the democratic society we live in the ‘silent majority’ is always affect the most. I believe this is what you fall within and now you annoyed, you didn’t focus upon stopping such ludicrous laws and activists getting what they wanted.

  104. Robin Chown says:

    The line “Ants die.” cracked me up! This certainly does make you think, even though I do believe it oversimplifies the issues. Plenty of people from both eras had their share of challenges, but I do think things are very slowly getting better.

  105. Slrman says:

    None of this matters bit. Within 50 years, there will be no USA as we know it today. America will have split into several mutually antagonistic countries. At least one will be a totalitarian theocracy, another will be a socialistic dictatorship, and there will also be a fascist regime. Unfortunately, there will all have nuclear weapons.

    Sure am glad I live in another place now and hope I can get the rest of my family out before emigration becomes illegal.

  106. Tyler says:

    I too have always wished I grew up in the 50s or 60s rather than “the 2000′s” Three years ago I was in 7th grade. Some how some way, a butter knife ended up in my bookbag. I thought nothing of it, I mean what would I do with a butterknife. A few days later some kid saw it in there on my bus and told the bus driver. The bus driver took it into school police and the next day the principal came and took me from my classroom. All of my classmates were wondering what on earth was going on since I was the kid that never did anything wrong. The principal accused me of lying saying that I planned on attacking a student or something, called my mom and ended up suspending me for 45 days. To this day I still think about what I missed, both socially and academically, in the 45 days I was gone. This generation sucks so much!

  107. Uchenna says:

    OMG principals and dads having their free lunch beating kids left to right. Some of you may be thinking high schools in the 50′s were good old times, but there were so many effed up things going on.

    On the whole paddling thing, I actually went to elementary in Nigeria, and I can tell you first hand, I’m still scarred both physically and mentally from all the child abuse I received from both school and home. I can’t get close to people because I have major trust issues, and I can confidently say I neither like nor dislike my parents. This is one of the biggest issues in Africa that unfortunately can only be seen from the outside.

    Anyways, I’d like to point out that America saved itself big time when they put in place laws to protect underage citizens from both parents and school instructors. The way I see it, human behaviors evolve until they become the norm. Adults taking advantage of children should never be a norm.

  108. Lillith says:

    Well, I’m not totally sure it’s been said because I didn’t feel like mucking through all of the heavy, self-important comments you usually find when someone puts something like this up but I just wanted to point out that:
    1. The idea that times before were any easier or perhaps superior to modern times is a well worn logical fallacy that tends to make rounds only because of the disconnect and untrusting nature people have towards other generations.
    2. Most of the things on the list are beyond extreme in that obviously the person that wrote up said list is not happy with the way things are now and simply misses the times when they were a child and didn’t really have the eyes to see what it was like for adults and so, they are unable to compare being an adult then to being an adult now.

    Well, that’s just my two cents. Take it or leave it.

  109. DaveH says:

    Every single one of these examples is a straw man (go look that up if you don’t know what I mean). There are other factors outside of what is said that changes the equation completely. The main difference is one of discipline, respect, and expectations. In the 50′s, people expected more of children, the kids themselves respected elders more, and were more disciplined. They could (mostly … there have always been exceptions) be trusted bring a gun to school, or aspirin. As time has passed, that discipline has eroded, in large part because a great number of those same kids resented being “oppressed” and never passed the same values down. Incidents began to happen, then repeat with enough frequency that something had to be done. Treating kids the way we did in the 50′s simply would not produce the same results; they do not have the same values, and they do not have the same skills. The answer is not to blindly revert to the “old ways,” because it would make a horrible mess. We really need to restore values and make kids understand again that self-discipline and treating others right in the long run is best for them too. Nowadays, the highest value seems to be, “if you don’t get caught, it’s all right.”

  110. Matt says:

    This is simplistic nonsense. It is one big straw man argument for 1957. I wouldn’t dignify it by addressing any specific point.

  111. Anon says:

    Even though this was posted like 9000 posts ago, I still can’t help but correct them.

    >> “17 million kids on Ritalin (a form of heroine) in the US alone – that is criminal. ”

    Ritalin (methlphenidate) is not even closely related to heroin. Not only are they completely different from a pharmacological standpoint, their molecular structures don’t even remotely resemble each other. Heroin is a narcotic derived from poppy (opium). Methlphenidate is a CNS stimulant that appears to work more like amphetamine if anything. Please educate yourself.

  112. Ron says:

    In response to the question “How did we get there”… the answer is… WE allowed it to happen… all of it…. directly or indirectly.

  113. Concerned Teacher says:

    This entire page makes me sick in general with the exception of those who saw this as a strawman argument. There’s a lot of misconception about the way current schools run, and, from the comments, this muddled view can lead to statements that could be linked to xenophobia, racism, and sexism. While 1957 may have been a better time in the sense that the American dollar was strong and “core values” were at play, the perception that everything was better then and is worse today is LAUGHABLE.

    Scenario 1: Why is the vice principal showing him shotguns? Shouldn’t he just say, “Okay, get to class” instead of showing off his weapon? Regardless of how well one can handle a gun, there can be a misfire or an unplanned discharge that can injure, maim, or kill. DON’T BRING AN ACTIVE WEAPON TO SCHOOL.

    Scenario 2: I thought fist fights were a bad thing? What if it escalates to other students and suddenly you have an entire population coming home with black eyes and bloody noses? And then you blame the school? DON’T FIGHT AT SCHOOL.

    Scenario 3: Yes, because paddling was a good solution to those with learning disabilities. Not being able to sit still is something you can control without having to strike a student. DON’T PUNISH FOR SOMETHING A STUDENT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE ON HIS OWN.

    Scenario 4: This is all about PARENTING, this has nothing to do with high school. The “current” scenario is so hyperbolic, it made me want to scream. I won’t even advise anything on this since it’s a terrible point anyway.

    Scenario 5: Nobody will make such a big deal on aspirin. However, you can still OD on it as you can with any other drug; therefore, it’s easiest just to let a teacher know you have a headache so they can help you. NOBODY EXPELS A KID FOR BRINGING IN TYLENOL.

    Scenario 6: Pedro would fail out of English today, but that’s because we’re only providing the bare minimum of support for them because of components of Bush’s No Child Left Behind legislation. Also, who’s to say he can’t take summer school today? This point is more concerned with organizations pushed by their own agenda and a lot less about high school.

    Scenario 7: While every child enjoys seeing fireworks and explosions in movies, cruelty to animals (including ants) in a demeaning fashion is one of the biggest signs of psychological disturbance. Plus, if he has firecrackers, why would he bother putting them in something else when they work on their own? IF YOU ENJOY HURTING ANIMALS, EVEN THE SMALL ONES THAT RUIN PICNICS, THEN YOU NEED TO THINK OVER YOUR LIFE. Also, this point has even less to do with high school than the last.

    Scenario 8: Teachers don’t get called for molestation on a hug when students are young enough to have recess. Usually, that means the students are up to the fifth or sixth grade. If they’re that old, they’re probably not going to receive a hug because a teacher has better judgment in knowing that a scrape is nothing big to someone nine or ten years old. However, it is big to someone five or six years old and a hug is a coping mechanism for them. Most of the time, the molestation charges come from hypersensitive parents or students looking to cash in on the days of overactive legal benefit. DON’T SUE TEACHERS FOR TRYING TO MAKE YOUR CHILD FEEL BETTER.

  114. Rejean says:

    Try this one…
    2057 Not here yet. We can have the best of the past, but also learn from our mistakes. Do something now to make a difference then.
    I coach little league, participate in ministry through my church,work at a company that promotes green technology solutions and am a foster parent. Yet I know I could do more. What are you doing for 2057?

  115. athensguy says:

    If it’s not obvious to everyone else, it’s obvious to me that a huge portion of the problems with SWAT and Police interaction from all levels of government is due to the War on Drugs and the Republican failure to defend in 2001 that lead to the passage of S.1.

  116. Marolyn says:

    I hope I don’t offend anyone here, but I am going to try to make a few points. First, I am a 35-year-old working mother of two. My wonderful and supportive husband was understanding and wanted me to stay home with our children until they started school. For that, I will always be grateful. I am also ADHD, which remained undiagnosed until I was 25. I was very good in school, but I still had a hard time sitting still. Back when corporal punishment was allowed in school, I was routinely paddled by my teachers for disruptive behavior in class. My parents tried everything to help me learn that there were rules and I had to obey the rules. There was no lack of discipline in my house growing up. I was never beaten, but I remember having my rear end smacked for lipping off disrespectfully to my parents or other people in public. Today, most people comment about my wonderful manners, and that is not sarcasm. I suffered from depression for 10 years due to my undiagnosed ADHD, had very few friends because of my horrible behavior, almost drove my husband to divorce on several occasions, alienated my children more than once, and without my medication, I would still have no way to try to deal with these problems. I don’t beat my children, but they are disciplined for breaking the rules. My husband was an abused child, but he has never beaten me. He is a recovering alcoholic who is going to school to get a better job while I support him, since he did the same for me several years earlier. I grew up in south Georgia, had a very good education for the leading welfare county in the state, where the average class size in 1985 was between 28 and 35, teachers aides were limited to kindergarten and possibly first grade, and there were three levels of classes in my high school ranging from remedial to college preparatory. I have never done illegal drugs, I just self medicated for many years with caffeine and nicotine until quitting smoking 2-1/2 years ago, very soon after starting my ADHD medications. I’m still trying to kick caffeine. I have an FBI file because of my years in the Navy, where I met my husband. Both of my parents worked, and I did come home to an empty house after school, but I knew exactly what would happen if I didn’t get my homework done. I have known hard times, have gone hungry so my children could eat, but never turned down a job offer or a hand up. I paid every bit back. I don’t wear designer clothes, I shop in thrift stores, and my children understand the value of a dollar, and are learning about their mother’s problems, and why I really do not want them to behave the way I used to because of how much damage it does. I am taking responsibility for my actions in the past, and trying to modify my behavior to keep from making the same mistakes in the future. Will someone please explain to me exactly what category I fit into? I am incredibly smart, very close to genius level, yet I work an office job after completing technical school program. I do not make a lot of money, never have, but I don’t blow it on drugs or stupid things I don’t need. My children are not materialistic, we have one cell phone for the family, and I still know where my children are at all times, because they know if they do something like stay out too late, they will be in trouble. If I don’t like their friends, they don’t hang out with them, usually because the so-called ‘friends’ are rude and disrespectful not just to me but to my children as well. So please tell me exactly which particular pigeonhole I fit into?

  117. Michelle says:

    Corporeal punishment is definitely not the way to prove a point, or to keep children from doing things that are wrong. Instead, you need to inform your children about the differences between right and wrong, and help guide them whenever they make mistakes. Which is worse: the sting of a spanking, or the sting of your parent’s disappointment?

  118. Brian age 23 says:

    I found myself laughing through many of these posts, for a couple of reasons.

    1: It’s quite apparent that our society has lost the ability to capitalize, punctuate, and form coherent sentences of any kind. This goes for the young as well as the old!

    2: Whenever I think about those who grew up a half-century ago or more, I picture Red Forman yelling at his son, threatening to insert any number of objects into his rear end. Maybe that sentiment is mine alone, but I can picture my grandfather yelling at my dad in this fashion whenever I watch That 70′s Show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i308sX3C3PA

    3. I was reminded of a quote in one of my favorite books, by Chuck Klosterman (“Chuck Klosterman IV,” for those of you interested). In context, he is talking about blindly cheering for the U.S. in the Olympic games, simply because the athletes were born on American soil. But I digress… the quote is as follows:
    “As I grow older, I find myself less prone to have an opinion about anything, and to distrust just about anyone who does. Whenever I meet someone who openly identifies themselves as a Republican or a Democrat, my immediate thought is always, ‘Well, this person might be interesting, but they’ll never say anything about politics that’s remotely useful to me.’ I refuse to discuss abortion with anyone who is pro-life or pro-choice; I refuse to discuss affirmative action with any unemployed white guy or any unemployed black guy. All of the world’s stupidest people are either zealots or atheists. If you want to truly deduce how intelligent someone is, just ask this person how they feel about any issue that doesn’t have an answer; the more certainty they express, the less sense they have. This is because certainty only comes from dogma.
    People used to slag on Bill Clinton for waffling on everything and always relying on situational pragmatism; as far as I’m concerned, that was the single greatest aspect of his presidency. Life is f***ing confusing. I don’t know anything, and neither do you.”
    We all have opinions, and they all stink. But they sure are interesting to read when people become passionate!

  119. Jim says:

    The thought of corporeal punishment this close to Halloween is really scary.

    On a more serious note, a spanking (as opposed to a beating) causes no no real physical or mental injury. As noted earlier, it gets a child’s attention and lets them know in no uncertain terms that their behavior is unacceptable. It should never be administered with malice or anger, and the child should be made to understand exactly why they are being punished.

  120. Dan Nickerson says:

    I doubt this would have happened in 1957. First Grader Cub Scout sentenced to 45 days in reform school for bringing camping utensil to class.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html

  121. napolean says:

    wow this entire thing is littered with fallacies, PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT FALLACIES AND WHY MUCH OF THIS CAN BE DISCREDITED!!!
    50′s and all that jazz are soooo over glorified

  122. Kenny says:

    Most of these scenarios are over simplified and romanticized, some are just plane ignorant. I find it funny that most of the people who are morning the good old days fail to realize its their generation that has been responsible for most of the changes from 1957 to now.

  123. Dan says:

    It’s stupid to think that the world hasn’t improved in some ways since the 1950′s. It’s also stupid to say that certain things haven’t gotten worse. Feminism has come a long way (and has much further to go), the internet has made the world a more communicative place, and racism (while not resolved) is more out in the open and easier to spot.

    People have really shitty diets, now. It’s going to take at least a hundred years to get back to the baseline level of health enjoyed by people of those times. People had stronger cultural traditions in that era, as well, as the pervasive monoculture of media hadn’t quite pervaded every home yet.

    The 50′s were a terrible time in the United States for just about anybody who wasn’t a white male. It makes me sad to see that the internet is so predominantly the same.

  124. Melanie says:

    Well i’m in high school now, and can say that it really isn’t that bad, and the person who probably wrote this is not in high school now. But it is funny to read this because you know it is true somewhere.

  125. Josh says:

    i think some of those senarios are a little inflated, or if anything very very different from place to place.

  126. Nevermore says:

    Interesting stuff. A bit inflammatory, but some of the points are well taken. It’d be interesting to see it written from a different point of view (someone in school in 2009, a woman, or a minority).

    One thing that must be taken into account in the way things change is demographics. The boomers control – and have enjoyed the longest period of control – the economy, politics and constitute the largest voting block. Why has this nation changed so much? Everyone has a stake, but the force of demographics can not be denied.

  127. Dan Nickerson says:

    And yet another related story.. Eagle Scout gets suspended for 2 inch knife in his car.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/eagle_scout_suspended_for_keeping_p0wi1CkT0QHy76vA7PEgyL

  128. erehwon says:

    This has been a very interest comment chain. The crucial point being missed is that changes in attitudes and cultural norms don’t necessarily have to be the same thing as surrendering personal responsibility and decision making authority. Many of the points about how 2008/9 is a better place to be than 1957 are valid, but so are many of the points about the ‘good old days.’ The problem is that when we surrender personal responsibility for our decisions, we end up with too many of the ludicrous examples like yesterday’s Eagle Scout, or the man jailed for tickling his daughter, etc. Would the positive aspects of our social evolution have happened if we hadn’t also had the draconian expansion of outside authority? I’d like to think so!

  129. crazysquid says:

    The reality of all this is that back in the 50′s, there wasn’t the “Mass comunication” that we have today. In the blink of an eye, we can know exactly what happens in China, Japan, Australia etc. In the 50′s, it took day’s just to find out what happened in Califonia on the New york T.V. stations.
    By then, you figured the world hasn’t ended because of it, and there is nothing you can do about it, so why worry.
    Today, it’s straight up in you face, happing as you are standing there. Think about Orson Well’s “War Of TheWorld’s” radio program. People lost their minds because this was happening NOW, in this country at this very moment, LIVE!
    Even though it was a hoax, it changed the America thought about the “Alien threat”, and launched the beginning of Congressional investigations, and “Operation Blue Book”, just to name a couple of the thousands of ramifications.

  130. Tom says:

    So, other than the ritalin the late 1950s were a more rational time. Seriously spanking? And they accused the comforting school teacher of being a sexual predator.

  131. Tom says:

    Dragonfire – your an idiot. There I said it.

    “Vacines are our biggest problem the poisons they put in there ave been linked to many problems such as ADHD Aspergers Syndrom my oldest son has Aspergers Syndrom linke to Thimorasil an ingrediant in many Vaccines”

    Firstly – “linke”. I guess you mean “linked”. What is the difference between linked and caused by. Did you know that being obese and MacDonalds are linked? Doesn’t mean that MacDonalds is the REASON why your fat. They are simply two things that often go hand in hand. Thimorasil is a bloody anti-fungal. Its SUPPOSED to be harmful. Its an antiseptic. Its SUPPOSED to be slightly toxic. I think you also tried to say neuro-toxin. Dunno what a nurotoxin is. Alcohol is also a neuro-toxin. I bet you know lots of people who like alcohol.

    “Vacines are our biggest problem” that’s fine too – you can just catch smallpox :)

    Look, what I’m trying to say is that people without at least A-level chemistry really shouldn’t preach facts about chemicals. Lets assume that your screwed up theory that “chemicals are baaad” is correct. Would you like your children to either:

    A) Contract smallpox, suffer and then eventually die
    or
    B) Behave badly

    Take your pick..

    P.s. Aspergers Syndrome is genetic.

  132. Andhrimnir says:

    anecdote != data

    and these aren’t real anecdotes, even. They’re purely hypothetical – and thus worthless as a form of evidence.

  133. Andhrimnir says:

    also, whoever said Ritalin was a form of heroin, do some research before you post stuff like that. They’re not even related. The only connection they MIGHT have is that Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is sometimes used as a chemical replacement for Cocaine during rehabilitation treatment. I’m not saying I support the Ritalin craze, but get your facts straight, for pete’s sake.

  134. Bill says:

    1957: Black man sits at the lunch counter next to a white man. Gets tied to back of pickup and dragged down the street.
    2009: Black man sits at the lunch counter next to a white man. They discuss last night’s ballgame.

  135. jamEs says:

    This whole article just shows how society has removed the tools to discipline children anymore. When I was a kid I got spanked when I was bad or when I was lippy my parents would put hot mustard on my tongue. None of those things scarred me growing up and I’m a well adjusted person in this world. I know as well as anything I earned pretty much any punishment that might have been doled out to me. I think that’s my biggest fear about raising children in the future, what do you do when they misbehave?

  136. Chuck Finale says:

    Don’t forget that both the 57 and the 09 story are hyperbolic. That’s now how it actually goes down.

  137. kristin says:

    I’m a highschool student, and honestly, this is way too dramatized. That is not what happens if half of these things were to be true. Lets say someone were to bring a gun to school and leave it in their car. Sure the school would be put on lockdown, but we would not have the FBI, there wouldn’t be any counselors for traumatized students, etc. That’s just a bunch of bs.

  138. Melissa says:

    No examples with girls in them. Interesting.

    Cindy studies very hard.

    1957: Cindy decides to marry her high school boyfriend because she can’t make a living as a secretary. He ends up being an alcoholic, but she doesn’t have the means to leave him and still support their children so she stays.

    2009: Cindy can go to college. She may still end up being a secretary due to the recession, but she makes enough to choose if she wants to stay married or not.

  139. Daniel Thompson says:

    Methylphenidate (Ritalin), diacetylmorphine (heroin) not even close to the same thing Ritalin is similar to amphetamines or cocaine and heroin is close to neither of those.

  140. Anonymous says:

    Written by a WHITE male who drives a truck and sleeps with his gun – probably from the midwest or some southern state…

  141. Shran says:

    I still wonder why I got punished for writing left-handed in… those good old days.

    It’s also not that hard to portray… historical events as good and pick a few ridicule current events as comparison. One could just as easily make up a story where severe child abuse in the “GOD” was called education and considered acceptable, to ridicule the past. Unfortunately those things did really happened in the past in some families and by not including the “GOD”-part history…. automatically become the dark ages instead of the present. To be honest, I don’t think that would be a correct representation as well.

    I’ve seen very bad things in the past, I see beautiful things in the present, but… the reverse is true as well. So… although I love the past, I rather live now instead of getting too nostalgic and missing all the nice things that still happen…..

    What would be left but choosing a coffin if I didn’t ?

  142. Vitero says:

    That turned into an advertisement for child torture pretty quick. Any way we can track down Dan Nickerson and put an end to this?

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Vitero, um… right here.

      Look all I did was post a mass email on my blog that I thought was interesting.. I had no idea it would generate 2,000 visitors a day.

      But child torture? What in the world are you talking about?

      These examples are exaggerated as I, and many others have said.. is there some basis in truth to them? absolutely.. I can think of loads of examples, and have even posted some recent stories that fit the mold..

      Just because the original author, (whoever it was) didn’t cover every single possible scenario, and wrote this from a perspective favoring the 50′s… doesn’t mean he/she was right. But these perspectives strike a chord with people who lived in that time. I grew up in the 60′s and can relate.. that’s why it was posted.

      But when people start thinking I’m advocating child torture because of this thread, they really need to seek medical help. Or at least learn to read.

      Once again, this is just a viral email my mother sent me that I found interesting.. and I posted it.

  143. crazysquid says:

    Dan;
    This piece started of as a sort of trip down memory lane, kind of like what the “Early Show” is doing with their “Time Vault”.
    Started off with Penny Hilburns innocent post “Oh so very true, life was soooo much easier. Thank your mom for sharing” to an avalanche that snowballed into a debate, argument, hostile pinfold, or whatever it became, about child abuse, drugs, school shootings and a lot of other negative issues.
    I had made the comment about mass media, and i still stand firm in that belief. The old sayings “Out of sight, out of mind, Ignorance is bliss, What you dont know can’t hurt you, were all in place in the 50′s. People were just plain ignorantly bliss. Today, anything and everything thing can be found in a flash at the touch of a remote control, newspaper, or computer key board.The media today airs every child kidnapping, murder, assault etc. and if this doesn’t bring up mass hysteria, i don’t know what does. South Park aired an episode that was about child kidnapping that was so apropos to today’s broadcast media. People just plain believe anything that the news channels broadcast. The same as in the 50′s. Technology is the key factor in the difference between today, and the 50′s. Morals and methods are the same, but they have become modernized by technology.
    You posted a VERY cool post, and unfortunatly, it snowballed into to the negitive. NOT your fault Dan.

  144. Mike H says:

    2009- I take my son to the hospital in Stafford Virgina, i think my cat knocked medicine off the table and my nine month old might have got a hold of it. – Once there my wife calls me and says the police are at our house and they want to search it, they come in without a search warrant and see i own guns, they take some of my guns, the modern ones, left others and change me for child neglect and endangerment, my son can’t even walk yet and he never goes into my hobby room where i keep my weapons. one year later still in court, cost 2000 in bonding me and wife out, 6000 dollars in lawyer bills and still might go to trial, CPS never got involved, Our Son is our world, I believe Stafford Co. Virginia likes to try to destroy family’s.

  145. Anonymous Coward says:

    Let me put my own life experience this way: If it weren’t for corporal punishment (spanking, switching, liquid soap) and a heaping good installment of moral values*, I would be rotting in a jail cell today instead of being a fine upstanding citizen. I suspect many others here are the same way.

    * The last 7 of the “10 commandments” are something we all completely agree upon: Every week, work hard for six days and then relax for one day, honor your father and mother, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not lie or gossip, and do not covet. We all agree on these things because these principles create a stable, non-chaotic society. They also form the basis of the lost art known as “common sense”.

    I rather enjoyed reading both this blog post and the comments. Some of the comments are quite flamebait worthy, of which I had to refrain from replying to.

  146. Greg says:

    a few months ago, a student at my high school was suspended after her car was searched (for no good reason) and administrators found a pack of cigarettes in her dashboard. mind you, the student was 18 but the cigarettes violated our school’s “tobacco policy.”

    this story fits right into the subject of how fear mongers have turned the “land of the free” into “land of the OBEY AND DON’T ASK QUESTIONS”

  147. Ricardo says:

    Sure, the 1950s were great… as long as you were male, white, conservative, christian, heterosexual and (at least) middle class. If not… well, though luck, right?

  148. Ricardo says:

    Also, I find it very curious that whoever wrote the original article uses a very peculiar time span: 52 years. Shouldn’t it be a round number, like 50? Why didn’t he/she use 1957-2007 for the comparison?

    Oh, wait, I think it’s because… in 2007, the Republicans were still in office. Now suddenly, everything becomes more clear.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      And the Democrats took control of the House and the Senate in 2006… So what?

      The obvious answer was that it was 50 years when it was originally posted. If you google this you will discover many postings of it as “1957 vs 2007″. However, as it continues to get posted, posters are simply adding the year they posted it on. Because if they didn’t commenters would then say.. “What there are no problems anymore because the Democrats took control in 2006?”

  149. Greg C says:

    I do not think that the portrayal of ritalin as a mind numbing, zombie creating drug is fair. I have been on ritalin since I was in grade 6 and am now completing my BSc in pure mathematics and plan to continue towards my PhD. Ritalin is not a mind controlling drug, nor does it affect your personality. From experience, it does have some unpleasant side-affects, such as irritability, restlessness, and lack of appetite, but I am certainly the same person when I am on it. Also, I feel that without it, I would not be nearly as academically successful as I am now. I am not saying that I would not be capable of academic success (I certainly would be) but post secondary education demands a certain amount of concentration, and that is something I do not have. Essentially, I think people should become more informed on the drug methylphenidate before publicly decrying it.

  150. Greg C says:

    OH AND someone thinks ritalin is a form of heroin? Come on people, please! wikipedia it or something!

  151. TAS says:

    I wholeheartedly believe our main problem is the media. I grew up in a BFE town in Oklahoma, and most of the people that lived there where White or Native American. Most of what I’ve learned about other ethnic groups (Yes ethnic groups not races) is what I learned from the media, which was very bias. All you ever heard where how this person of RACE (any ‘race’) was doing something bad. I finally moved to OKC which has a lot more ethnic groups and I had a huge culture shock and this was just less than a 100 miles. I found that the stereotypes are not like they are on the media. Yes sometimes they are right but for the most part they are wrong. I learned after several months of living here that just because you are a certain ‘race’ that does not mean you are a drug dealer or some stupid such.

    On the topic of the low-income families it’s hard to blame most of them because it is IMPOSSIBLE to live on minimal wage even without supporting a family. You can also only receive welfare cheeks for no more that 2 yrs continuously and a total of 6 yrs. Welfare also does not help when you only make $7.25 an hour without health benefits. Also it’s been proven that the public school standards are sub-par, teachers are underpaid and classrooms are over crowded. So even if the poorer families wanted to get ahead in life they have a very hard battle for them. Also random fact: Most poor families are single mothers who the father has abandoned them or has died.

  152. Martin Glynn says:

    To be honeset i think that these show the social decline in american society today, as is the american way. You all consider yourself lucky to be so “free” and democratic, when in fact ive yet to see another country since nazi germany and fascist italy (and im not saying america is nazi etc) where a nation uses so much indoctrination and propoganda to convince its people that how they spend their budgets (defensive or otherwise) and who they approach their foreigh policy is correct.
    Another thing that irritates me about americans (and these are only the ones that i have experiance with) is their complet arrogance and ignorance, one even whent so far as to ask me if we had gay people in ireland.
    I mean come on like.
    America isnt the best at dealing with its social problems, and its lack of interest in how other countries run things because they are either communist of socialist doesnt help either….

  153. Impressed says:

    I see this entire thread as a giant debate that presents many if not all the issues debated between party lines in modern politics. Each side has its reasons and views on every subject, but i think the part we cannot agree on is the moral standpoint. Many of the perspectives developing on these topics are based on what is right. One person may see a certain approach to an issue to be more benefiicial; another person may see a completely different approach to be the solution. In the end it comes down to understanding each others viewpoint. Yes, some of the scenarios may be exaggerated or even a little innaccurate, but I do not think the scenarios were meant to be “politically correct” or dead on accurate, I think these scenarios were made to get people thinking about what has changed in that past few decades and perhaps why things have changed. What past lessons have we learned or not learned as a Nation or people? What corruption has ensued so that perhaps kids bringing their gun to school is more dangerous today than it may have been in the past. Where in the scheme of bussiness and politics do prescription drugs get thrown at people to make money, and when do people get prescription drugs to actually help somebody. I am however very impressed with the wave of ideas coming from this seemingly simple read. when i first read this i did not bother to take in mind half of the topics that have taken disscussion

  154. Fr4nk says:

    Wow
    I wonder if it has anything to do with the intense violation of the human spirit by the media’s choice to portray a horrific world to already scared people.

    and perhaps…

    something to do with almost not natural foods. In 57 there were actually nutrients in every day food.

    and perhaps…

    The massive amounts of radiation that we live with these days. Between cell phones, wifi, radar, radio, microwave, the list goes on….

    and perhaps…

    ahh maybe that’s enough of a reason… to explain why p30ple are so farked up these days…

    Fr4nk Banana reporting live from the interw3bs

  155. Josh N says:

    Daniel kisses Mark

    1957 – They are both lynched.
    2009 – No one cares.

  156. Schulze says:

    There is a good thing about human memory.
    Over time, every saved information in it gets manipulated into something better, until you see your past with rose-colored glasses.
    This is a way to make your life better: You are abled to see about everything in your past, even the worst events ( being spanked, being raped, being almost killed, yes, it gets as far as that.).
    This generally good thing – it often helps people from committing suicide – oftenly gets turned around. The older people get, they will criticise the present by comparing it to the past, which gets more golden to them with the passing years.
    This, of course, is not the real past but their changed perception of it.
    The reason of the eternal struggle Old vs Young? This is it.

    Now, what I want to say: It’s not hard to overlook the bad things in the past and overlook the good things in the present.
    I feel qualified to say the life standards for most american citizens is highly elated today compared to the life standards in the Fifties.
    There are still issues everywhere, and of course, for old issues that got abolished – race and gender are not as significant anymore, which is a good thing, cold war has ended, people generally tend to believe more in peace than in war, etc. – there are new ones. Drug use, financial crisis, screwed-up environment for example.
    All in all, our lifes still got better. One evidence is you ranting around here – if there were computers back in the Fifties, you surely had not enough money to buy one.
    Thus, I don’t think it is too wise to wish back the “golden days” again. They were probably as grey as nowadays, maybe even greyer.

    Thank you.
    P.S.: If there is bad English, I ask you to excuse my failures. It’s just my second language.

  157. matthew says:

    good lord. to anyone who buys into any of this garbage, you are a complete and utter moron. i could go into why you’re a moron, but i know it would only fall upon deaf and ignorant ears. referencing purely fictional scenarios as evidence for anything, fifties americana propaganda or otherwise, is so laughable it makes me want to puke. you people are so willing to swallow up anything that feels good, you fail to ever really contemplate any of it. enjoy your unexamined lives, you idiots.

    p.s. @dan – 1957: dan’s mom makes a horrible error in judgment and fails to abort the pregnancy (fifties coat hanger style of course).

    2009: dan’s mom makes yet another horrible error in judgment, sends him some ignorant garbage to share with the internets, and i die a little inside.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      I wasn’t going to approve Matthew’s comment because of its hateful tone and vile content. But I think it helps prove the point about the change in generations.

      From his email address he appears to be a college student so he has little life experience. Myself and many others on this thread have lived to see many of these scenarios play out.. As we’ve all said.. they are extreme.. but they are not purely fictional. I’ve even proved it with some recent news stories as well.

      I’m sorry if Matthew’s comment offends anyone, I have not approved other ignorant comments like his. … However, when someone states that I should have been aborted by my mother because I reposted a very popular email on my blog.. It ticked me off enough that I wanted to show the world how much of a lowlife Matthew is..

      If Matthew feels so strong about this issue.. I challenge him to show his mother this post and his comment. I’m sure she’d be very proud.

  158. cam says:

    Wow. I don’t think it’s even possible to be more alarmist and extreme about school today. the only scenario that isn’t completly uot of this world and ridiculously untrue is scenario 1, and I guess scenario 3 could be true. but the rest are basically something that someone, who obviously has no kids, made up because they, for whatever reason, didn’t like schools today. I’m a highschool student and will be graduating this year. I know kids who have gotten in a fist fight (scenario 2) and it happened just like this article says it would happen in 1957, the only difference is that at the end they were not friends and they both got suspended for a week. also, I know that probably at least half the kids in my school have at some point brought tylenol or aspirin to school for a headache (scenario 5) and nobody cared. I could go on about the rest of the scenarios but sufficient to say that unless this article was written purely for fun and humour, then the author is a halfwitted dumbass who should probably think twice before blindly belivieving whatever he/she sees on fox news.

  159. Hazl says:

    It’s so annoying when people romanticize about the “good ol’ days”. While I agree that some of these scenarios are treated very wrongly today (you have a good point about firecrackers, for example), I really disagree with your glorification of child beating as a means of bringing up your children.

  160. Phillips says:

    Capt. Turk and Jacks thread will go down in infamy.

  161. matthew says:

    “I have not approved other ignorant comments like his. … However, when someone states that I should have been aborted by my mother because I reposted a very popular email on my blog.. It ticked me off enough that I wanted to show the world how much of a lowlife Matthew is..”

    jeez dan. while i’m not quite sure that a comment on your blog is equivalent to “showing the world” anything, i’m really rather flattered that you allowed my post, even if its just because you hated it more than any other, or felt it truly captured the lack of good old fashioned morals amongst today’s youth. when i made my comment, you were little more to me than a thumbnail of some grinning, backwards thinking goober. but you’re not a thumbnail. you’re a man. a man with feelings. and i’m sorry if i hurt them. also, i accepted your challenge, and shared all of this with my own mother. she was disgusted.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Matthew… almost 120,000 people have read this post, and 2,000+ new people view it per day..so it’s a start..

      Not sure what I stated in the comments that makes me appear backward’s thinking.. I think I’ve been pretty fair to all the commenters..

      However, I am proud of you for showing your mother.

      Trust me.. When it comes to disgusting people, as one the creators of the iFart Mobile iphone app, I’ve disgusted millions… But most people your age think I’m pretty cool because of that..

      And I’ve never been called a “goober” before, but as an ex model with a 150+ IQ, whose made millions of people around the world laugh… why would I have been?

      I do get called a “geek” on occasion.

      I just wish that if someone feels compelled to leave a comment on this post, they leave a logical, cordial and rational response. It’s the only way you will sway any opinions.

  162. matthew says:

    right on, dan. noted.

  163. Lillith says:

    So I see the comment section has further fallen into argument about something that clearly is all strawman. I was, for a moment, finding myself “on the side of” the OP but when I caught the crack about college students and life experience I was reminded how ‘wise’ adults tend to think of the number of years you’ve been alive as badges of wisdom. It isn’t the quanitity of the experience, Dan, it’s the quality. Few of the vibrant, wise, and mature people I’ve met in my life were over 35 at the time I found them to have such wonderful qualities. A majority of the people I found to be closed off, bitter, angry and closed minded were people over that age.

    I did get a chuckle, however, out of your self-ego-stroke about how smart and successful you are. As if your IQ, another number, actually matters. Bet they didn’t teach you that in the 50′s and 60′s. My parents, born in 50 and 51 and my grandma, born in 32 all seemed to think the values you should have to be truly successful include a good work ethic, good morals, and common sense.

    I do hope this was cordial enough for you.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Lillith, I think we can agree that the average college student doesn’t have the life experience of the average middle aged and above adult.. Of course there are exceptions.

      But when someone calls you a backwards thinking goober and suggests you should have been aborted by your mother, I think perhaps that individual is not one of those exceptions.

      And I think it gives me latitude to tongue and cheekly suggest that I am not a backwards thinking goober. Ego stroking, perhaps a little.. If I added those things to my site headline.. yes that would definitely be ego stroking.

      Everyone’s life experience is different, that is why these scenarios ring true to many people, and seem insane to others. This is the reason this thread is what it is.

      I surround myself with many vibrant people over 35 thus my perspective is different than yours.

      Now not to ego stroke, but I never said I was successful, however I have worked an average of 80 hours per week my entire adult life.. In my 20′s worked 4-5 jobs at a time and clocked years of 100 hour weeks. My father at 75 still works 70 hours per week (by choice).. Trust me I was raised with the ethics and morals you speak about…

      Yes your comment was cordial enough, thank you.

      However, I will most likely pull this post this down in the near future.. The comments I disapprove of daily simply get more and more disturbing..

  164. Kylie says:

    I think that there is truth to these scenarios, but I also believe that a few of them are over exaggerated. The gun scenario in the beginning is a definite one that is going on because guns are very dangerous, so I don’t think there is much exaggeration there. I have a problem with the one about ADD and the Sexual Abuse one. First of all, people assume that ADD is just something that is made up to make money, and I believe that there ARE some people who are given Ritalin who don’t need it, but it’s a very real disorder. The reason why fidgeting might have been taken care of by discipline is because ADD didn’t exist back then like it does today. ADD and ADHD are disorders that are more environmental than they are genetic, and it’s because of what is called the “MTV effect”. Have you ever really payed attention when you were watching TV or a movie how it switches scenes so often? A scene is never on the screen for longer than a few seconds, and this causes people to more easily pay attention. Because of this, our attention spans are decreasing causing fidgeting and making it hard for us to listen during class. This is why ADD didn’t exist years ago, because there was no TV. Even when we did have televisions, the MTV effect was only used very little, if not at all.
    About the teacher and sexual abuse; I agree that this is a very dumb move for the government to make. I know parents who are afraid to bring their kids to the grocery store just because they have bruises because they have accidentally fell and hurt themselves. There are also many parents out there who are afraid to spank their kids in public. People wonder why kids are so spoiled rotten now-a-days, but when a kid knows that when they are in public they won’t get punished, it’s only leading them on. I heard a story once about a kid saying back to their parent something like, ‘go ahead and spank me, I can just call the cops’. This is a horrible world today with all of our “safety”. I think that people need to be able to tell the difference between someone who is actually sexually assaulting a child, or if they are just giving them a hug because they hurt themselves.

  165. crazysquid says:

    Dan;
    Concerning a small part of your comments concerning life experiences and age. I kind of have to disagree with you on this one. there are always exceptions.
    I enlisted in the U.S. Navy when I was 17. By the time I was 20, I had been to over 50 countries, seen, and met more cultures of people than most Emigration workers, saw more inhumanities, and worked more than my share of 20 or more hour days. I think that I probably have had more life experiences at 20 than most people have had their whole lives. Remember, age does not always mean wisdom, or intelligence.
    The person who is making the rude and vile comments is just a poor soul searching for justification in his/her warped way of thinking. Every generation from the dawn of man has rebelled against authority figures, or someone they obviously see as intellectually superior to them. This was, and always will be the way it is.
    Do not give up this blog, for it is a variable cornucopia of mixed and scattered minds that people find fascinating these days.
    Certain things that today’s youth think are cool are no different than that of the 50′s. Take the “Sagging Pants” thing vs. the 50′s Pompadour hair” thing that parents hated. I can not understand why the male youth of today wear their pants down even though in San Francisco that is a “Gay” code for “Young and available”. I’m wondering if the 50′s hair style meant the same thing.
    History repeats itself, always. We do not learn from our mistakes if they do not happen to us personally. technology is basically the only difference in history. With advancement of technology, the awful things that happen in life only happen sooner, and now more people know about it.

  166. Steve P says:

    Obviously written by people who lived in the “good ole days.” Pretty much all of the 2009 situations are completely exaggerated..

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      @crazysquid, I clearly stated there were exceptions… especially with the military like yourself.

      @Steve P, also stated they were exaggerated, but all you have to do is watch the news everyday to see where the inspiration comes from.. I’ve posted a few recent stories that fit the mold.

  167. Noel Akins says:

    Hi Dan,
    Great little thread you got going here. I was born in 1958. Which makes me special because I’m included in the Boomer” generation now. Back in the early 70′s, I wasn’t a Boomer. I was born 3 years too late to be a Boomer. Can’t remember what we were called. I grew up in the 60′s and 70′s, and have as of the last 20 years, been interested in the impact the 60′s and 70′s had. And I found out that one had to look back to the 40′s and 50′s. and once you got a handle on that, you had to go back to the 20′s and 30′s. It is odd to look backward beyond your time to your parents time, to your grand parents time. I used to marvel at the changes my parents saw during their lives. I was born fairly late for may parents. They had childhoods not much different then their parents, no cars, no phones, no radio. On the other hand, the future that was promised in my childhood never arrived. What today’s 20 year old will see by the time they are 50 is beyond me. But surely, they will look back to today and think of these days as the good old days.

  168. Noel Akins says:

    I just wanted to add a few things. In my self exploration of recent history, there are two things that really stand out. One is the lives of women and how it has changed over the last 70 years. It is true that the divorce rate was much lower in the 50′s. But, doesn’t reflect the desire there was for divorce in the 50′s or the political, economic, and cultural changes that allowed women to get a divorce. Also, the “Pill” changed everything. And women, who had worked during wartime, had pushed the ability for women to work outside the home. This lead to more women taking part in the workforce. Also, women culture has changed, although not has much has their freedom has. The other is the development of the post war economy “Suburb” and how it changed the way of American life. As a subset to this, you can add desegregation, forced busing, and white flight. If you were part of the “New” culture, your views and way of life were completely different then those who were still living in a culture that existed 10 or 20 years prior. The fashions may have been the same, but the rules and ideas you lived by were different.

  169. Cory Fischbach says:

    DANG LIBERALS!! Look what they have done to our country!

  170. Sabu says:

    Be prepared for a long post…this blog has really given me a lot to think about and a lot to write about too.

    Wow…where to start. First off I’d like whoever reads this to realize that without respecting others’ opinions, you refuse to adapt, which is the reason humans are where they are now. Regardless of how idiotic an opinion seems or how much you wish you could strangle the person above you because of the post he/she made, it’s the internet and that frustration will only lead you to anger and therefore clouded judgment.

    Oh. Also, I am a 19 year old male student currently enrolled in university. I don’t know everything, but neither do you so I hope that you will all respect my opinion as much as anyone else’s.

    With that said, I think I can begin.

    I’ll be honest, I haven’t completely read everything everyone wrote. I stumbled upon this page today and found it very intriguing. Of course most of the scenarios are exaggerated, but I wouldn’t say there is no basis for them. You may not have experienced these things yourselves, but there is definitely someone out there that has.

    Scenario 1 – I won’t get into the political aspect of guns and whatnot, but for obvious reasons bringing guns to school isn’t a good idea regardless of how stable-minded you might think you or anyone you know might be. The reason rules such as those were implemented is clearly for the safety of children in school. You can make any argument you like, but guns will still be deadly. (not to mention the advancement in the accuracy and capacity to kill that guns have seen since the 50′s) It’s school, not a warzone, so leave your weapons at home and keep them there. Whereas the school systems might not be perfect, they do what they can to protect students and as far as I’m concerned, the advancements that have been made in that field are exponential and should be kept. If you want to have show-and-tell with guns you can do that outside of school.

    Scenario 2 – First off I don’t think that Johnny and Mark would walk away friends after a good beating, but who knows…I didn’t live in the 50′s. And maybe the SWAT team won’t come for your every-day run-of-the-mill fight. That said, I have seen plenty of fights in my time in school (mostly in high school) but none of them ended with more than a bloody nose and possibly a broken bone. These injuries are mostly sustained by those partaking in the fight, so it was their choice in the first place. Let me clarify by saying that a fight is different from a mob chasing after and beating a helpless student. I’m not saying that fighting in schools is okay. It most certainly is not, and it should stay that way. Imagine if everyone turned a blind eye to fighting in schools. Not only would there be more fights, but by ignoring these things and refusing to punish the culprits it sends a message to all of the other students that fighting is okay. That’s not the message we want our kids to hear.

    Scenario 3 – This is a controversial scenario, because in some cases ADD and ADHD, along with all manner of other diseases/conditions, can be very dangerous to those suffering as well as their peers. As some of you said, ADD and other conditions were not as prominent because they weren’t diagnosed. Others said that it is merely an easy way out for the parents and/or the teachers. There is truth in both of those statements. I know of a lot of people that are diagnosed with all sorts of ailments and disorders. More than half of those people (out of the people that I know have these “problems”) abuse the drugs they are prescribed themselves or sell them to their peers just to get some extra cash. I know that there are people out there that need these drugs to live a normal life, so I wouldn’t say that they should not be allowed, but then there’s an equal party that doesn’t need those drugs and those are the ones abusing the drugs. I can’t think of a good solution to that problem and I don’t think there is a perfect solution to the problem. There is a fine line between those that need it and those that want it for the wrong reasons, but as there is no foolproof way of distinguishing between the two I would say it is better to help those that need it regardless of those that abuse it.

    Scenario 4 – For a little clarity, I’ll say that Billy’s dad gives Billy a good spanking instead of saying he “gives him a whipping.” There is a clear line between beating and punishing. A child may not see that line, but it is every parent’s responsibility to know where the line is and not to cross it. I’d say anything with an open hand is fair game as long as it’s on the bottom. Closed fist is taking it too far. An open hand may make your tush red for a day, but a closed fist can bruise and cause permanent damage. Without some kind of punishment for negative reinforcement, a child will never learn the difference between what is acceptable and what is grounds for punishment. Sure you may have some kind of super-child that just has the innate ability to just not do anything wrong, but let’s be honest. Every kid wants to have fun and well…what’s more fun than breaking the rules right? Since the kid can’t be held socially responsible, it is the parents’ responsibility to make sure the kid doesn’t get in trouble. If a parent cannot discipline their child, then they will grow up undisciplined and bring that into public. I know from personal experience. My dad had a closed fist ready to knock my head against a wall every time I did something bad. I grew up failing elementary school and cursing at my teachers. I had no discipline at all. That isn’t to say that I never learned though. I certainly have grown up a good deal since those days, and I have since forgiven my dad and also learned the difference between being a bratty little kid and being an adult. Now I’m in college and I’m getting good grades and I’m on full scholarship doing what I love to do. Being successful is mostly psychological. Of course childhood effects all of that, but I feel that anyone that wants it enough can do whatever they want. (to a certain extent. no need to be devil’s advocate and say that a midget can’t be a basketball player. I know there are exceptions to everything)

    Scenario 5 – So I know all medications and whatnot were not allowed in school, but I never once saw anyone expelled or punished for having over the counter pain medication. There are way more important things for people to worry about.

    Scenario 6 – Seeing as I hated English (still do) I have a biased opinion here, but let’s be honest. I don’t care what anyone says about whatever freedoms blah blah blah. English should be required for the purpose of ensuring that everyone with a high school education is proficient enough in english to follow the career path they choose. All that analyzing novels and short stories bull is ridiculous. Regardless of what anyone says, English is the national language of the United States of America and it always has been. Sure we’re a melting pot of nearly every culture on the face of this planet, but hell if you want to be here so much you can learn a little bit of English. Criticize me all you want, but a country cannot function with half of the population speaking a different language from the other half. I know a lot of Americans are arrogant and ignorant for not wanting to learn other languages, but if you’re in your own country living your own life you should be able to go through every day life without having to look for the English version of a sign because it is surrounded by 5 other languages. And personally I absolutely DESPISE trying to talk to someone in customer service that doesn’t speak English. Management needs to start using their brains and at least not put people with limited English abilities in a position where they are forced to interact with hundreds of people (that speak English) on a daily basis. That’s not racist at all. That’s common sense.

    Scenario 7 – I don’t have any personal experience with this one unless you count a magnifying glass.

    Scenario 8 – One of my sister’s very good friends had sex with one of their former English (haha coincidence) teachers. It came out a few years down the road and the teacher was fired and he was embarrassed in front of his family, his friends and the entire community. I hug teachers all the time. (male and female alike) I doubt anyone has said a thing about it. I wouldn’t say that the scenario is impossible, but it is very unlikely that the justice system would allow such an obvious mistake go unnoticed.

    Now…to comment on the comments :)

    John J – “I think it’s interesting that the kids from 1957 are the ones who have essentially made/changed the rules to what we have today. I wonder why?”

    It’s an intriguing question, but I think that it is mostly the upper-class that makes the laws and regulations. Of course, we live in a democratic republic so the people do have a say, but when it all comes down to it the ones in office are the ones making the laws and, although I wouldn’t say it is true for all politicians, they are mostly corrupt lying SOB’s interested merely in self preservation.

    Heidi L – “Parents find it more important to have both parents working so that they can ‘keep up with the jones’ instead of actually taking care of their own children.”

    This is huge. I totally agree with you there. Most people are way too worried with their personal possessions that they forget what is important in life. I won’t lie, I bought into it too. I have a pair of $200 Oakley sunglasses, a $1100 Macbook and a $700 42″ LCD TV. I bought them all myself, but what do I need those for? I’m a college student. I could have gotten a $300 laptop, a $5 pair of Walmart sunglasses and a $50 TV. Of course it is necessary that people continue to buy things like these to keep the economy circulating, but the point is that when people put those things in front of things they REALLY need it causes problems. It is appalling to see how much society has grown away from the personal way life used to be. These things make life easier for us of course, but is it worth the separation we put between our loved ones? Regardless of whether it is your mom or your dad I think that it is important to spend as much time with your children as possible. With most families having two working parents, it is really hard for the personal aspect to be there with their kids. I can’t even tell you how many times I heard the words “I hate my parents” come out of my friends’ and my own mouth. It is disrespectful to say these things yet we know no better because that is how we grew up. The problem is that as kids of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, we have every right to be mad at our parents for not being there to raise us. I won’t say that every child with a stay-at-home parent has a better life, but I’m sure they appreciate the love and care their parents gave them as a child.

    Tracy Repchuk – Respect.

    Mark’s Jeep – Scenario 9: Frank playing ball breaks a neighbor’s window

    I don’t completely disagree with you there. I don’t think it’s right that a lot of people try (and sometimes succeed) to take advantage of the justice system, which coincidentally is there to protect you, by setting themselves up for disaster, but I think it is in human nature to be greedy. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution for every problem (or at least we haven’t found it yet) so all you can do is hope that some scumbag doesn’t try and screw your life.

    Dr P – “This page is ridiculous. Sure, a lot of the examples from 1957 maybe true, but nearly all the examples from 2009 are so far from reality its laughable. No doubt, the examples from 2009 HAVE happened; but the only reason we hear about these things is because they are so far from the ordinary that they become newsworthy. These examples don’t describe what life is like in 2009; in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if this page was written by a Fox News reporter. That is, this is nothing but conservative, gun-toting, American naivety at its best.”

    I understand that this article is slightly exaggerated in cases, but I think it is merely a message to make you think. Of course 1957 wasn’t better than now, but there are some aspects of life in 1957 that, in theory, seem to be a better option than what we ended up with today. (like UNC winning the NCAA tournament :P) The point is that some of the specifics in this page are noteworthy and should be questioned. The author clearly hoped that people would question these things and possibly instigate change. That’s all any writer wants to do really; make people think. Not that you guys don’t think, but I think that’s the problem with the United States. Too many people go through every day life wondering why their life sucks, but they don’t even think to voice their opinions and instigate change.

    Ryan – “Today’s parents are so afraid of going to prison for “beating” their child that the kids run free in the streets, knowing that there is little to no consequences, because all mom is going to do is yell a little bit and then go back to her soap operas. Today’s mom can’t swat their child’s behind at the grocery store for screaming and throwing a tantrum because people like you will call the cops.
The mother has done nothing wrong besides get the child to be quit. But because the parents can’t discipline their children in public, they don’t take their children to public places. This leaves kids with no knowledge of social interaction and no clue how to behave in public places, so when they do go out they are horrible, or when they finally start going to school they don’t know how to make friends or sit still in their chairs, so someone decides to give them drugs to make them calm down.”

    I think that as a species, humans have just discovered so much in technology and medicine that it’s starting to backfire. It’s hard to find people that aren’t on some kind of “medication” regardless of what it is for; the common cold, a headache or a real problem like cancer. These days there is a quick fix for basically everything. It’s a way for people to just keep on going. In this day and age, it is so out of the ordinary to take a break that we have limited sick days in the workplace. The only real way to help yourself be a healthier person is to take care of your body by exercising and eating healthy. (fast food every day won’t cut it) I think it is quite ridiculous that companies are allowed to punish you for being sick. Sure there are people that aren’t really sick when they take sick days, but to regulate how many days a person can be sick is like trying to play God. I understand that you can’t just let your employees run free and take as many sick days as they want, but to a certain degree there has to be some other way of working it out without forcing someone who is seriously sick (and possibly contagious) to come to work.

    Hunter – “Really people?2009 sucks. Me and my friends say all the time that we wish we grew up in a different era. People back then had so much more fun and life was simpler. Now adays “fun” is trouble, and not to mention cops are always looking for any little thing to put against you. … But by listening to my grandpas stories, and all of my friends grandpas stories, i can honestly say, that our stories, will not be as great as theirs.”

    Hunter, you may wish you grew up in a different era, but unless you’re hoping for a better future and to live there, I think it’s best to stay put. ;) You don’t think your grandparents would have wanted to bore you with stories of how crappy it was back in the day would they? You’ll have plenty of good stuff to tell your grandchildren. And if you think about it, you could have a lot more fun out with your friends than you could posting on some random website about how much 2009 sucks. The thing is that your grandparents’ stories are going to be different than your stories. I’m sure the stuff they did was fun, but you can’t honestly say you never had fun can you? Their fun sounds better because you never experienced it. I can’t say I know you had an equally fun life, but I’m sure there were bright moments. It’s what you make of your life that is important, not what you wish you could do.

    J Q – Ehh…I don’t think your facts are entirely in line. But on the other hand that idea about computers and technology is interesting although quite ridiculous. Half the old people already live in Florida so we could ship the rest down there with em right? ;) just kidding of course.

    Capt. Turk – “Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin (one of the founding fathers if you didn’t know)

    Wow…what to say. I cannot express how glad I am that you brought that point up about freedom. You are right about the freedoms to a certain extent. We (citizens of the United States of America) have ceased to take responsibility of our own actions and have therefore surrendered our liberties to the government so that they may ensure that we are protected. The only problem with Franklin’s quote is that it may work in principal, but in reality (or at least in today’s society) it is inherent that we give up SOME of our freedoms for our safety. I definitely do not think that we have every freedom that we should have, but this is also another one of those fine line things. You can argue and argue every which way, but there is no right answer and there will always be danger. The catch is that everyone has to live in harmony without infringing on their neighbors’ rights. The government must regulate this to a certain extent to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to be “free,” but I think they’ve gone way too far in some aspects and not far enough in others. It’s way too much to explain now, but it is definitely something to think about.
    As for your comments about the education system, I definitely disagree about the race issue. First of all, as a people we need to move away from race. There is way too much profiling and such going around. Of course, it is inevitable when people of different origin look different and act different, but that is no reason to believe that they cannot achieve the same goals in life. Facts don’t lie, and I’m not saying that every race is the same. It is ignorant to think that pointing out a stereotype is being racist. Most stereotypes are there because they are at least in some cases true. Some stereotypes are degrading, but others are just observations made over and over again by thousands of different people. That said, I think the problem is that there are just too many students and not enough schools and teachers. Not only that, but the teaching system is skewed. Everyone has their own way of learning and there is no generic style of teaching that works for everyone. In that case, there should be different schools and programs for different kinds of learners. It’s a tough style to implement, but if it works better than what we have now then it doesn’t hurt at all to try. I personally experienced what you are speaking of though, but it wasn’t how you described it as bringing “the level of all races down to the lowest common level.” In my high school, regardless of race or skin color, they started mixing the standard level English classes with the Advanced Placement level classes and making everyone do the AP work. The standard level students got an extra grade level added to their final grade to compensate for the extra amount of work they had to do for the class. The problem with this system is that the standard level students are in that level because they can’t learn as quickly or they can’t handle the work load. Mixing the AP level with the standard level hurts both levels and is a completely backwards way of teaching. Once again, I don’t have the solution to this problem, but by bringing it up and putting it on the table someone else might be able to find a better solution.

    Mike – Regarding your post on technology, I don’t think you can say that without seeing what the world would have been like without humans. It’s impossible to know that no other species would have stepped up and dominated the world.

    Andrew – “The past is just that….the past. Let’s move on folks.”

    It’s easy to just say that and try to forget about it, but it doesn’t work unless everyone forgets about it. Give it a couple more generations and people will hardly even think about trivial issues like this. There will most likely be more bigger problems to worry about. The reason we all learn about history in school is so that we can look back and see all the mistakes that our ancestors made and make sure that we, as the current generation, don’t make those same mistakes.

    Capt. Turk – You just bring out all the discussion in me haha. I must agree with you. Most minorities are more racist than the people they accuse of being bigoted towards them. The thing is, white people are the real minority. In this day and age, interracial marriages are nothing uncommon and race is going to start becoming a moot point. I can only hope to see the day when people just say you are just an ignorant SOB and not say you’re an ignorant n*gger. (or jap/chink/honkey you name it) I’m not immune to all the stereotypes and things going around, but I try to at least let every person I meet give me a first impression before I go and put a tag on their head because of what color their skin is. The sad thing is that most people just happen to fit the stereotype.

    K Jenkins – Another intelligent post. Although I believe that Bush (and Obama and I guess the past 3 or 4 presidents) is to blame for most of our current problems, I completely agree that it is our responsibility as the people to stand up and do something about it. It is surprising to me that all of these polls and censuses say things like Bush’s approval rating at 20% or whatever. If so many darn people thought he was full of crap, then why the heck didn’t they all stand up and do something about it? I think the truth is that they wanted to, but either figured someone else would do it for them (as so many people these days, including myself, do) or were too scared to stand up to the government. It is sad that this country is basically being run by fear. The problem is that every big thing that happens (which is usually something scary/bad) is nationally publicized and it just breeds an atmosphere of fear and submission. People think that the government will save them from the demons from outside, but what they fail to realize is that it is the government that we should fear. Not only that, but I feel that the USA is the country doing the most terrorizing. Sure it’s nice knowing you’re the only country with nuclear weapons, but why is it that the USA is that ONLY country to have EVER used a nuclear weapon in a war? Of course people will scream that I’m a leftist because I preach questioning the government, but why shouldn’t you? If you refuse to question the government, then you allow them to run rampant and do what they please when they please. You give up your freedoms in exchange for the feeling of safety, but are you really safe?

    catzilla – I feel like you’re an exact replica of me living in NYC. We should talk some time.

    Lynne Gordon – You should read what I said about angry posting etc…

    Todd – YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Screw all this politically correct bullcrap. If I’m speaking the truth I don’t give a crap what I say or who I offend. The truth hurts people. Get used to it. If you don’t like it, then why don’t you f*cking change the truth. Until someone proves to me that society has changed, I’ll keep preaching what I’ve been preaching the whole damn time.

    Okay I gave up reading. Too much. Oh yeah…and I wrote a damn book up there…

    Feel free to email me if you want to talk about stuff.

  171. Daniel says:

    The point isn’t that 1957 was a better time to live than 2009, but that in these particular situations we’ve actually managed to really screw things up. Essentially they all fall into the same common pattern, which is that parents today have become dedicated to “protecting” their children from largely imaginary dangers. It’s pretty clear that the average modern parent has a clear image of a dangerous stranger setting out to abduct and/or molest their children. In reality, there are only a few thousand such cases nationwide each year, out of around 75 million children in the U.S., and the numbers are no higher than they’ve ever been. You could very well go your entire life and never meet someone who had been directly affected by such a crime.

    Once we’ve built up a culture of fear, though, it’s exceedingly hard to get ourselves out of it, because you’ll encounter an awful lot of people saying things along the lines of “No mother ever regretted keeping her child too safe.”
    Well, maybe not. If literature has taught us anything it’s that mothers can be quite deluded about their roles. But there are sure a lot of people in my generation who regret daily the fact that they were kept on short leashes and wound up under-socialized, pathologically risk-averse, and generally unequipped to deal with anything resembling the real world. And here we’re not even counting all the people whose lives have been destroyed by short-sighted “zero-tolerance” policies that have less to do with protecting students from danger than with protecting administrators from liability.

    My personal story is instructive — from childhood I was exceptionally skilled at my chosen line of work, to the point where I was successful at a national level and got into one of the most selective and prestigious universities in the world. The very first time I hung out with friends on the weekend was when I was 18 years old. In fact I spent so much of my time making up for over a decade of social deficits that I ended up nearly failing out, graduating with a terrible GPA, and effectively flushing an enormous amount of potential down the toilet. I am currently in my mid-twenties, unemployed, living with my parents, and pursuing graduate studies at a distinctly less prestigious school — one of my department’s top students graduated last year with a Ph.D. but has yet to find any kind of employment.

    If our society doesn’t regain a healthy respect for childhood autonomy, there are going to be a lot more of me out there — highly competent, maladjusted, taught from an early age to stay in line and take orders from the first authority figure in sight. I’m not sure who’s going to come along and take charge of the situation, but I think it’s time to start worrying.

  172. Reinaldo Xavier P.C. says:

    I do not see the reason why you would get any negative feed-back for this post. Perhaps the realism of it all offends those who have accepted the radical changes which have brought our society to its knees. I applaud your courage for posting and urge you to continue. We need to look at the unnecessary evolution of “social changes”. That evolution has, and will continue to, collapse(d) our social integrity..

  173. Kevin Airgid says:

    very, very true! great post!

  174. Mark D says:

    The differences between 1957 and 2009 are not as glaring as they are made out in this post. Our perceptions are what has changed.

  175. Impressed says:

    I think some of the scenarios may have to do with simply how dangerous the world has become and not exactly the realism or politilcal connotations but the moral issues facing the average person in today’s world as opposed to yesterday’s world. It really gives me alot to think about how the world changes everyday and reactions to certain scenarios as the ones presented are going to change with time. People who have live through that period into the present one have seen these changes and should feel differently about the subject than a person who has not. Some of the issues presented within the scenarios seem important because they are more recently detected issues that some people take special consideration of because of perhaps a political view. So another question that might be considered is why has our overall political and moral standards changed ? What events or perhaps world views have changed between the 1950′s and now?

  176. Mark Twain says:

    Evolution? (in a jim carey kind of way with powerful emphasis on the THINK)… I think so.

  177. EVRW says:

    The description of both eras say a lot about the United States. Used to be that beating the shit out of your kids was OK and letting them pulp each other’s faces was fine too. Nowadays you want them to be certain they live in a police state.

    For those of you who glorify the 50′s status quo, consider this: the 2009 society you loathe and now have to live with is a direct consequence of your history, and the 50′s were a key moment in that history in which your society collectively blew it and set the stage for everything that has led to this moment. Seems to me it didn’t work out too well the first time, so why, exactly, would you glorify it?

  178. ren says:

    I doubt the 2009 version of Scenario 6 has ever happened

  179. crazysquid says:

    Dan,
    There are numerous exceptions to experience I know, and my catagorey fits just one of them.
    To remove a post that has erupted in a barrage of mindful comments (And some not so mindful) would be folly. This is the type of article that should not only be expanded upon, but passed on to other sites.
    There is so broad an expance in the difference between the era of the fifties, and today that is what today’s youth should see. There were times when everyone thought that no one had worries of needed for nothing. This is just not so. Every generation has had it’s trials and tribulations since the beginning.No one generation had the monopoly on happiness. We as a society have to show kids today that there is a future for them just like in the “Olden Days”. Kids today see record numbers of unemployment, banks going broke, companies no longer offering a secure future for them, the threat of their homes being taken from them if they venture to buy one, and being killed by someone from a far off land that they do not even know. Maybe we should tell them that nothing new is happening. It all happened before and We as Americans have pulled through with flying colors. Those kids who still have great-great grand parents should listen to the stories of the “Great Depression”. Have them listen to their grand parents about WWII. We were attacked by a cowardly far off people that we did not know, nor had any beef with then, and we pulled through. Listen to their parents about the so called gas shortages of the seventies. Comfort them, and tell them that there always will be more “Good Old Days” in their life times, and it is up to them to make them. Good old days are not just history, they are our future also.
    Dan, do not remove this post, blog or whatever. It has Rung a giant bell.

  180. zachy d's says:

    this is ridiculous and unrealistic. Probably written by someone who went to high school in 57 and watches FOX news to learn about modern high school.

  181. Denis says:

    When she was five (she’s now eleven) my daughter slipped on the ice in the playground and hurt her wrist. The next day, I took her to school with a cast on her wrist – she’d cracked a bone in her wrist.
    The principal was ready to meet me in her office to apologize profusely and tell me of all the playground safety measures and how the staff acted responsibly when I cut her off: “It’s ok. Kids slip. They fall. Of course there’s some ice on the playgound – this is Canada in the winter. It happens.”
    After that, the principal really liked me. I was normal.

  182. John says:

    these are the worst scenarios ever. the 2009 ones are taken way to far and are unrealistic

  183. chuck says:

    I just graduated from a high school in in Minnesota ’09 and i had a shotgun and bow in my back seat at least half of the time….just thought i’d throw that out there.

  184. Randi Miller says:

    This is purely b/c of parents being overbearing and controlling. They need to take a step back and relax. The more moms worry about sexual predators, drugs, and alcohol, the more likely that they will come true. Not to mention the massive lawsuit era we are in right now.

  185. Sean says:

    20 year-old graduate student here, having grown up much closer to the 2009 side of things than the 1957 side.

    I agree that zero-tolerance policies often go too far, and that a lot of in vogue psychological theories are rubbish (no matter when you live).

    However:

    As a person with both a tiny attention span and a high degree of intelligence, I question whether most school systems in the 50′s would have allowed me to do advanced study and skip grades, even though in elementary school I was hyperactive, trouble-making, and didn’t improve with punishment (no, not even spankings with a belt, as this chain letter seems to hold up as a shining example of effective parental discipline, and which were, in fact, administered to my delinquent backside with no protest from the law).

    As someone who was always small for my age, I did have problems with bullying, but I did generally defend myself well, and in fact I got in trouble for defending myself. I think this is ridiculous, but my parents stood by me, the school made a note on my record that no one else ever read, and my life was fine afterwards. Common sense is not completely dead yet.

    As someone with an mixed and complex racial heritage, I am glad to live in a time and place where no one wondered whether my 1/8 Cherokee mother was legally “white”, or how a blond woman like her could ever take the risk of marrying and having children with an extremely dark-skinned Mexican.

    As someone who discovered that he was bisexual by falling for his (straight) best friend when he was 18, I’m glad that the confusion and heartache and panic that came over me at that time was entirely between me and said friend, and not further exacerbated by a society that viewed homosexuals as sex criminals.

    In short, there was no place for someone like me in 1957, and so this sort of good-old-days talk is difficult for me to understand. It’s all well and good to say “well, we weren’t talking about those parts, with the racism or the inflexible curricula, we were talking about childhood independence”, but frankly the sort of people who’ve performed the “good” societal reforms were the same as the sort who made the “bad” changes, because they were human and did stupid things. You can’t separate out those changes. Nor does bringing a gun to school mean the same thing in an era where we hear about school shootings every year. Wanting to live in that old world is such a narrow view like wanting to live in the Sahara because it’s sunny there year-round.

    That said, I do feel for Daniel above (I did have similar problems at one point). I don’t think that most people have a clear idea of what the school system is actually supposed to accomplish, and so it’s devolving into this meaningless way of separating people from the real world until their late teens. School is often used as a shield now. Kids that are in school are not on the streets, not doing drugs, not hanging out together plotting dangerous/illegal things, not acquiring and misusing weapons or machinery, and not out having sex, or so the logic goes. School is the parent while the parents are busy at work (which in the 50s was the housewife’s role, and in all previous generations was no one’s role because only rich people could have unemployed kids that were supervised most of the day). This is particularly true in such underfunded, minority-heavy high schools as I go to. All I can say is this: 1) Schools clearly can’t solve all these problems all by themselves, and 2) Insulating people from the world is completely incompatible with creating knowledgeable citizens and skilled workers.

  186. Sean says:

    I feel like I wasn’t as clear as I wanted to be in the second-to-last paragraph there. In the first, what I was trying to say was that sometimes a world view that works great in one area may be horribly wrong about something else, but it may be the same set of values that lead to both conclusions, so it’s hard to say “well, we’ll just mix and match the good parts”, especially when the different sets of values are adapted to different environments as well.

    Here’s an example:

    1) The world has a certain order or natural law to it.
    2) This order comes from the top down, God to country to province to town to household to individual.
    3) People or groups on one level are protected from outside threats by the next higher level. The less power/knowledge a person or group can achieve, the more protection they need.
    4) Disputes between people or groups on one level are usually decided by the next higher level.
    5) Society gets to punish people who violate the natural or traditional order, usually the level immediately above punishing the one immediately below.
    6) Otherwise people can do whatever they want, including many forms of violence and self-endangerment. People are responsible for their own welfare (except when facing an outside threat or ongoing conflict, as per 3 and 4).
    7) Children are just inexperienced people at the bottom of the hierarchy.

    This set of ideas is simple and actually quite effective, and it provides for a stable society, with individuals experiencing a lot of independence and growth within whatever set of roles they can fill. It also justifies myriad forms of tyranny and slavery, and if we had to ditch this sort of thinking to get to where we are today, I am all for that. If we lose some good features of society in the process, that’s a new problem to solve, but it’s probably better than the old mess.

  187. Olivia says:

    I agree that there are some aspects of the 50′s that were better, It was a more innocent, safer time for a lot of people. But the original posting does seem a bit one-sided. Here are my additions:
    Scenario 9:
    Jack is horny and just wants to get some action from the local “slutty girl,” Sally. Sally doesn’t want to and tries to tell the principal.
    1957 – Vice Principal sends Sally to a mental hospital for re-training. Jack goes off to college and continues his efforts. Many other girls there are traumatized. Sally is eventually released but all credibility has been destroyed. After all, she should know that “boys will be boys.”
    2009 – School sends Sally to the hospital to get a rape kit. Jack is given a trial and gets 3 years. Sally’s social life is destroyed for a while because everyone knows she was raped and that is humiliating. She also becomes afraid to go out by herself. People at school don’t really talk to her in the same way (even though they were very supportive on the surface) and all of this only to have her rapist go to jail for 3 years. But it is still better than nothing: she stood up for herself and she has her psychologist and the support of her family and close friends. Jack gets some unwanted attention in prison from fellow cell mates and Sally recovers and goes on to become a successful executive.

    Scenario 10:
    Billy breaks a window of Chris’s house. Chris is African-American.
    1957 – Billy traveled all the way across town to the ghetto area just to do this because that is the only area blacks are allowed to live in Billy’s town. Nothing happens to Billy because Chris’s family knows that if they go to the police, they will get in trouble, rather than Billy. Billy goes on to make racist jokes and create uncomfortable situations for African-Americans (then called Negros), and when he gets a job after college, he is one of the people who ignores the civil rights movement in favor of the old days. He never hires any blacks and he votes for McCain in 2009 as a very old, unsuccessful man whose kids see him as an old, sad relic of the past.
    2009 – Chris is Billy’s neighbor. He comes out of his house and asks Billy what happened. Billy apologizes for his mistake and offers to repair the window.

    Scenario 11:
    Mark, an artist and drama club member who loves to act, sing, dance, and paint, does better on a test than Jack the Jock. Mark is gay.
    1957 – Mark is labeled a “faggot” by Jack and his friends and is beaten up daily in the boys’ locker room with the support of the coach, the principal and even Mark’s parents.
    2009 – The school institutes a gay-awareness program after they witness one scene of intimidation by Jack and his friends. Jack and friends are suspended, and Jack’s parents are embarrassed that their son is known as a bigot. People at school start to turn away from Jack the Jock, and he begins to pay attention to the new program. Eventually, he apologizes to Mark and they become friends.

    I have to say I would choose 2009. By the way, sorry about the somewhat stereotypical gay guy. ;-) I was just trying to add a little character.

  188. CatZilla says:

    Olivia, let me correct something. You know, just to see both sides evenly.

    Scenario 10:
    Billy breaks a window of Chris’s house. Chris is African-American.
    1957 – Billy traveled all the way across town to the ghetto area just to do this because that is the only area blacks are allowed to live in Billy’s town. Nothing happens to Billy because Chris’s family knows that if they go to the police, they will get in trouble, rather than Billy. Billy goes on to make racist jokes and create uncomfortable situations for African-Americans (then called Negros), and when he gets a job after college, he is one of the people who ignores the civil rights movement in favor of the old days. He never hires any blacks and he votes for McCain in 2009 as a very old, unsuccessful man whose kids see him as an old, sad relic of the past.
    2009 – Chris is Billy’s neighbor. He comes out of his house and asks Billy what happened. Billy apologizes for his mistake and offers to repair the window. However, Chris pushes racism and harassment charges against Billy, wins by default. Billy’s dad is now entitled to pay $150000 in moral compensation to Chris’ family.

  189. crazysquid says:

    There are a countless amount of scenarios that can be conjured up .(In 1493, 13 year old sally is abused by her father. She tells the local Elder who has her burned at the stake for being a Witch.
    1950- She tells her principal that she is being abused by her father. Sally is told to take two aspirin, and forget it ever happened.
    2009- Sally informs her Principal that she has been abused by her Father. Principal immediately calls school nurse, who notifies the local authorities. School nurse then lets it leak out, and Sally’s father is on the 6 o’clock news. Sally is devastated by the public humility and tries to commit suicide.
    You think this is a silly scenario? Scenarios are just that. Possibilities. They are all based closely on things that have happened in the past, and a hypothesis of what may happen in the future, or what could be happening now.
    Nothing new that is happening now has not happened before in one fashion or another. You just hear about it sooner.

  190. Jacob says:

    And lets not forget the other things in 1957, like black people living as second class citizens and being called coloreds or negros. Easier in some aspects, but a trade-up of one injustice to another.

  191. Shawn says:

    Great Read!!!

  192. crazysquid says:

    Um, Jacob..race card has already been played in previous posts. Blacks were not the only “Persecuted” Minority. Japanese were still being shunned, Anyone with even the remotest German accent was being accused of War Crimes. native Americans’ were losing land faster than in the 1800′s. Suspected “Commie’s” were being accused, and Black Listed with out a trial.
    Same ol’, Same Ol’ that’s happening today.
    Speak, or even look Middle Eastern and your a terrorist (WWII Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Hawaiians, ETC.) People have always persecuted some other people in one fashion or another. Africans are committing genocide of blacks TODAY far more than white people did. I am part Native American, and my Grandmother ,who Is Native American could of told you horror stories of oppression in the 50′s. So I get a little confused at the way people only see the bleak underbelly of a certain era. There are care free day’s in ALL era’s, and there are atrocities in ALL era’s. The only constant has been “NOTHING NEW THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED HAS NOT HAPPENED BEFORE, EXCEPT YOU FIND OUT ABOUT IT QUICKER”.

  193. ThatGuy says:

    It’s sad how true these differences are. I used to listen to my grandfather tell stories about the trouble him and his friends used to get in when they were kids. But back then they did things I would never dream of and got a slap on the wrist, if he did some of those things today he would have spent quite some time in jail. And the problem is that everything he ever told us a story about was in the end just some kids having some harmless fun in a society that didn’t take things too seriously, and most of the time the things he did are things I dreamed of doing as a child but our society deemed them dangerous. What happened to out sense of adventure? The excitement of taking risks? What happened to not taking things so god damn serious? Ii just makes me sad to know that my children will be even more restricted than I was.

  194. marsgee says:

    So here it is. THE MIDDLE GROUND ARGUEMENT. Ready? good.
    Back in the day, it may have been a simpler time, and for some that’s a good idea. But for minorities of any kind (women, other races, other ethnicities) it wasn’t a walk in the park.

    -spanking your kids is only okay if you dont do it often and not hard enough to leave emotional scars. However, many times parents get carried away.
    -since when is bringing a gun to school okay? I don’t think it’s good that you were allowed to bring a shotgun to school, i mean wtf? not everyone lives in a hicktown and goes hunting. Leave it at home.
    -Nobody calls the SWAT team when theres a fight in school, seriously? I agree the methods back in the day for stopping fights were better, but they can’t do this anymore because of parents.

    Parents are the problem. Parents have gotten super overproctective of their kids (“leash-kids” anyone?). They make them have phones at age 10 in case they get ‘lost’ or they ‘forget something’ and need their parents to bring it. They check their conversations on phones and email. They check the grades of their children as they get them online so they can scold either them or the teacher for screwing up the grade. They won’t let anyone touch their kid. (like the scandal with the character at disney world and a parent claiming it was sexual abuse because they probably just needed money). THIS needs to stop.
    However, we are three times smarter than we were in the 50s. We know so much more. About other cultures, religions, science, etc. Maybe knowing too much is bad, but it’s better than being ignorant. It’s 2010. But you can live simply if you feel like it, nobody’s stopping you from getting out of the techno age, you don’t have to do it. In the 50s, nobody had a choice. Everyone had a role, and that was it.

  195. littlebob says:

    About halfway through the posts I had to make my comment. I was amazed at how far off topic they go and how they turned into personal arguments. I’m 45 and don’t like where we are headed.. We have to start with the kids. I wish my son had a mom at home during the summer to tell him he had an ass whipping when Daddy got home like I had. I remember being scared of the Teachers and Principles, knowing they might have that paddle with the holes in it waiting for me if I screwed up.

  196. Chris Welch says:

    Has noone realized that this is completely biased? It seems apparent to me that the one constant with older generations is the lack of respect for the younger one. There is one, and only one thing that each of us have in common: we all grow old. Politicians will probably remain corrupt, taxes will almost certainly rise, but we will all get older. And when we do, we will talk about how the politicians in our younger years were noble and taxes were nonexistant. Maybe, with the wisdom the older generations seem to have, you can impart the wisdom and use it for the greater good, instead of sitting idly by and complaining about how good it once was.

  197. Bill says:

    I am a 15-year old white male in high school, taking four AP classes, band (includes marching), and German I. I get A’s in my classes because I work, and I see plenty of minority kids do well becasue they work. I think if you want a good grade, you had better well earn it. Handwriting is not taught at my school, but I wish it was because when we correct other people’s paper, I cannot read it. The number of people passing has gone up because the required quality of work has gone down. I respect my band teacher and my German teacher becasue they make us work to earn our grade – no getting it handed to you. Because of test corrections and the allowance for 100% on homework if you correct it, I know at least a half-dozen of my classmates in math (they are all a year above me) that are getting As even as they rot their brains with drugs.

    To refute and/or defend the individual examples:

    1. I would actually feel more safe if we could bring guns to school. Look at Switzerland and Israel. In the former, every adult in a certain age group is a member of the military reserve, and are required to have their weapons and equipment accesible at all times. In the latter, most people carry concealed handguns. On school trips, at least one teacher must be armed – usually all the teachers and many of the students are. They also require military service. Together, these have the two lowest rates of armed crime in the world – even though Israel is faced with hostile countries on three sides and water on the fourth. A school shooting is less likely to occur if the shooter is faced by a half-dozen guns, because many shooters knew that the good students would never bring a gun to school, and would be defensless. My parents are opposed to guns, but on a basis of no guns anywhere, not just no guns at school (i.e. complete removal of firearms from society.)

    2. Not much to refute, but the SWAT team is overkill. It only took a couple of squad cars. :)

    3./4. The paddling would be very effective. I was spanked as a child, and will use it as a method to set limits when I have kids of my own because I know where the boundries are. Once you get spanked, you never do that again, no matter how fun whatever you did was. Many of my classmates were not spanked. They are extremely obnoxious and often go too far with practical jokes and the like. Many have “ADD” and “ADHD”, which I say are just bullshit ways of excusing their behavior.

    5. That one is true. If someone has a headache, you have to go to the office, call your parents, have them bring the asprin out, take the asprin as per instructions (not what works best for you) in the office, and then you can go back to class. As a result, many kids don’t take anything and become irratible and find it difficult to concentrate.

    6. I got nothing. We don’t really have that problem at our school. Either you learn English or don’t go to high school – they would send you to a designated English class before rejoining school at the appropriate level.

    7. Yup. Not only would you be investigated for terrorism, but also for animal cruelty. And anything that is remotely militaristic would be used against you, even USMC posters or WWII firearms.

    8. Would definately happen. If a kindergartener gan be suspended for tagging another kid where her breasts would grow in another few years during a game of tag on charges of sexual assault (true story, unfortunately), then a teacher could get in trouble for a simple hug.

    Almost done. To comment on a few of the first posts –

    @Ryan – I agree completely. And I’m sorry your dad was put in prison, damn propaganda, telling people you can’t even let dads tickle their own kids.

    @Hunter – It’s exactly right that people do things becasue they are illegal. It thrills them. They also don’t have the guidance to show them that in moderation some things are fine to do. If they see their dad drink a beer every now and then, and maybe share some at home, they are about as likely to become an alcoholic as they are if they watch their dad abstain from drinking completely.

    @Paul – I know they look for keywords, and I don’t give a damn, frankly.

    @Andrew – We have more than enough money for schools and defending our freedom, we are just spending it on half-assed attempts to make life better for immigrants. What happened to the American Dream? Work hard and start over in America? Now it’s go to America so you can hitch a ride on the goverment. We have troops dying in the Middle East becasue we spend money on drugs instead of war bonds. In WWII we spent much more of our nations budget, 54% if I remember correctly, on the war and yet American kids recieved one of the best educations ever.

    @ K. Jenkins – I wish the government would. But even taking a school field trip, we have to fill out a ton of paperwork. Just to go to the Homecoming Dance it took 4 or 5 pages! For a dance! It’s my country, and I am proud of it, but the government sucks. When someone finds out how to raise the dead, tell me. I need to go find Abe.

    @ jack (1st comment on 10/1/09) – “We tried to keep the US separate for a while, but it did not work because it was not fair.” News flash – I didn’t work because of Pearl Harbor. And life’s not fair. Deal with it. “This is not a sensitivity thing, this is not a politically correct thing, it’s the real world. You HAVE TO BE PC. You just do. There is no reason not to. People get offended, and even if you don’t understand why they are offended you have to trust that they are sincere.”
    I don’t have to be PC. In fact, I regularly offend people becasue I’m not. They learn to deal with it or they stop talking to me. A good reason not to be PC is becasue then you can do what you have to. It’s not PC to be patriotic and join the military anymore, is it? I’m joing the United States Marine Corps as soon as I can get my parents to sign and I am leaving high school. I’m not going to wait until I’m 18 unless my parents will not sign. I feel bad about the war in the Middle East – because I am not over there doing my part. Oh, I’m sorry, it’s not PC to support the war. Too bad. We need to escalate troop strength. We are making the same mistakes we made in Vietnam and the Soviets made in Afganistan in 1979. Peace through superior firepower. “Whites started modern society” Look up early China and India.

    @ Concerned Teacher – “Regardless of how well one can handle a gun, there can be a misfire or an unplanned discharge that can injure, maim, or kill.” There is that danger, yes. But there are dangers in operating most things. An oven could catch fire. A bus could roll off a cliff because it’s icy out. (Almost happened at my school.) But training and common sense reduce the risk. If Johnny maintains his gun and keeps it empty, then he can show it off all he wants without more danger than showing someone a baseball bat.

    /rant

    Ok. I think I’m done.

  198. Dylan R says:

    Johnny struggles with depression
    1957- his parents and teachers label him a crybaby. His father beats him for being “selfish”. One night Johnny steals his father’s pistol. He puts it in his mouth and pulls the trigger. Weeks after the funeral Johnny’s mother stricken with despair at the death of her only son, she slits her wrists and dies in the bathtub. Johnny’s father covers up the despair he feels with the loss of his wife and child, he becomes the town drunk and lives out the rest of his days in misery.

    2009- Johnny is treated for his depression, he goes to college, gets his PHD, becomes a world renown chemist, his mother weeps tears of joy as he accepts the nobel prize.

  199. CatZilla says:

    Dylan R, let me fix it for you.

    Johnny struggles with depression
    1957- his parents and teachers label him a crybaby. His father beats him for being “selfish”. One night Johnny steals his father’s pistol. He puts it in his mouth and pulls the trigger. Weeks after the funeral Johnny’s mother stricken with despair at the death of her only son, she slits her wrists and dies in the bathtub. Johnny’s father covers up the despair he feels with the loss of his wife and child, he becomes the town drunk and lives out the rest of his days in misery.

    2009- Johnny is treated for his depression. He gets addicted to the drugs, which make him nervous and constantly upset and angry at the world. He finds company of a friend just like himself, and they decide to do a school massacre.
    True story. With the exception of being 2009, of course.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre
    Make sure you read the part about anti-depressants.

  200. crazysquid says:

    Dan Nickerson.
    In 1957 you HAD to join the military. It did not work. In today’s military, It is made up of young men and women volunteers who have seen the horrors that humans inflict upon themselves and say “Hey; This has to stop and someone has to do it, and that someone is me”.
    The volunteer military of today is the FINEST in history. it is not made up of Draftees, and criminals that join in Lu of jail. High School diplomas are a must in all but a few fields of the services. These brave kid’s join because they know deep down that they fight over there so that we do not have to fight over here.
    There are not a lot of similarities in today’s military, versus the fifties.
    There is no segregation, other than that of rank and rate. Minorities can excel in any job description in the military and become what ever they choose.
    Class distinction is still a factor in the military though. The poor are generally enlisted, and the “Well Off” are officers. That has not changed much since the 1700′s.
    It may not be “Politically Correct” to support the war in the Middle East, But you ALL DAMN WELL SUPPORT those fine MEN and Woman who are putting their lives on the line every day, throughout the world, so that you can openly put your thoghts and opinions in a site like this without worrying about being dragged out of your homes and beheaded in the streets for doing so.
    God bless our service Men and Women.

  201. crazysquid says:

    Just an added thought. God bless ALL those serving in the Military throughout the WORLD, that are serving in a free and Democratic Country that have allied themselves with us in the knowledge that They would not be a free and democratic country if it were not for the courage of our Men and Women in the military that are serving Now and those that have served before them.
    Sorry for the rant, but it just eats me up inside when people are afraid of being Patriotic because of some dumb ass-ed blowhards that say it is “Politically Incorrect”. If you do not support the War, fine. Those men and women are serving in the military so that YOU have the RIGHT to convey your displeasure with the happenings in the Middle East without any reprisals. Hey, what do you think would happen if ALL the U.S. military just “Pulled Out” of every country in the world? I would love to see the answers from those that think that the U.S. would be better for it, and actually give an educated, factual reason why.

  202. Dan Nickerson says:

    Crazysquid,

    Not sure why you addressed your recent post to me. I would never, have never, said anything bad about our military. In fact, my father was in the military from 1952-56 having voluntarily enlisted the day after his high school graduation.

  203. crazysquid says:

    Dan,
    So Sorry mate. I got the wrong comment column. It was actually intended for “Bill”, who wrote , I guess a rebuttal of sorts”? ,directly below you comment to Chris. My apologies.
    My comments had mostly to do with Bill’s comment (rebuttal?) to @jack.

  204. Robert says:

    The subjects covered on this blog kinda get off the the initial post by Dan, that he said in the beginning was an observation of someone else. . I hope to use it as a tool to discuss all the things with my 14 and 16 year old kids and have an open discussion
    on all the things that came up. The younger generation needs to understand a lot of us
    felt the same way as they do now when we were growing up, but life experience makes you understand why your parents did what they did.
    To the Younger generation that doesn’t understand where where us old farts are coming from, Hang on it will be you in a few years and you will understand.

  205. Bill says:

    No offense, but did you read it in it’s entirety? A lot was sarcasm, and didn’t I say I support the war? I’ll reiterate – the only reason I am not completely fine with the war is that I can’t go over there myself right now. I don’t feel right having others lay down their lives for me, but until I turn 17 and graduate, there is nothing I can do but support our troops. I’m sorry if my comment was taken the wrong way. I had a relative serve as colonel in the Civil War, one grandfather serve in the Navy in WWII and Korea, the other in the Coast Guard (WWII), one great-uncle as a dive-bomber pilot in the Navy (WWII), another as navigator on an AAF B-24 Liberator (also WWII), an uncle in the Air Force, and a cousin who is in the Navy serving as a corpsman. I would never want to disrespect their memories or those of others who served.

  206. crazysquid says:

    Bill;
    In no way was I insinuating that you were against the war. I was merely commenting on “political correctness” as pertaining to the military.
    The day this country becomes unpatriotic is the day that a foreign country will occupy it. Because of small things such as taking out the Pledge Of Allegiance from the start of every school day (Was in place in 1957) to not allowing little things like the display of the word Christmas in schools (It is now been replaced with “Holiday”) Happy Holiday” Not Merry Christmas. every little thing that offends ANY minority or particular group is removed from schools.
    Granted there was plenty of school violence in 1957, but Patriotism was everywhere. Now you ask any elementary or middle school aged child to recite the pledge of allegiance or sing even the first part of the national anthem and they are more likely to sing a stanza of “Carmon Sandi ego”.
    I retired from the U.S. Navy in 1995. I served in both Operation Desert Shield, and Storm. This country came to a FANTASTIC patriotic fervor the likes of which have not been seen since WWII. I was so proud to be an American, and felt humbled serving my country and the support and gratitude of a Nation. We can not stop. SUPPORT OUR MILITARY no matter your view of the situation in the Middle East (No Bill, I am not directing this at you. I am directing this at ANYONE who thinks that going up to a VET. and thanking them for their service is embarrassing or politically correct).
    One of my favorite bumperstickersapp I have ever read was ” Student Is An Honor Roll Student, Thank A Vet.” Yes students by every means should thank Teachers and the wonderful job that they do each and every day, however, they are teachers in this free and democratic society ONLY because of Veterans (Period). Anyone disagree?

  207. Bill says:

    It seems like I misunderstood what you said about your comment being directed at me, sorry. Your comment on the Happy Holidays reminds me – why do we have “Holiday Trees” at school? Christmas is the only holiday that time of year that has a tree! It just cracks me up. Oh, I guess my school is backwards. We still recite the pledge every day.

  208. crazysquid says:

    Bill;
    No problems. I too am sorry for the confusion.
    I try not to directly insinuate any derogatory statements to anyone posting on this Quorum. It is the Constitutional right of every citizen to express their opinion without worries of retaliation or condemnation.
    HOWEVER, due to the sneaky little unwritten law that some have apparently snuck into the “Make it up as you go along” Constitution, freedom of speech is slowly being eaten out of the American way of life like a cancerous tumor.
    In 1957 you said what was on your mind because Millions of American men and women who served in the U.S. military died for your right to do so.
    2009 you can not say any thing remotely offensive, or what you truly believe.
    I personally (Extremely) do not agree with the opinions expressed by the K.K.K. BUT I will die defending their Constitutional Rights to express (In words,both written and oral) those opinions. I in no way, shape or form condone the use of ANY type of so called “Hate Crimes” against any race, creed or culture, or religion.
    I have to say in all honesty that what I have read about the 50′s, it was not a very good time for minorities, no matter what race or religion, I admire anyone back then who fought the injustices within the confines of the Constitution.
    The Constitution and the Bill Of Rights are the fundamental backbone of this society. In the fifties, the Government was being run primarily by the rich. 2009 by Lawyers. This class of persons is,In my opinion, one of the eroding factors of society because of their bastardizing and manipulations of the Constitution.
    Example. Right to bear arms. The biggest argument? “Define bear arms”. Now you know where President Clinton got the Idea.
    You can not instill morals, ethics and patriotism in children without those lessons in schools. Political Correctness has no business in patriotism.
    Those that wish not to participate in the reciting of the pledge of allegiance due to religious/non-religious beliefs have just as much right to not participate without fear of reprisals as should those who do, Though it is not politically correct in today’s declining society to openly believe in a Higher Entity, The U.S. Government still prints “In God We Trust” on it’s currency. Why? Did they not remove a 10 commandments marker from someplace not too long ago?. Wrong type of moral ethics! A town in in an uproar demanding that an Atheist Billboard be torn down for it’s blasphemic expressions. Wrong type of morals.
    Tollerance in all beliefs is what the Constitution dictates. Be that belief ofr not belief. Put the brake on political correction.

  209. ... says:

    Wasnt ’57 when rock and roll just kicking off and the oldies that were born 1901 were saying how good they had it?

    Wasn’t there in ’57 so I cant say, but I grew up in the ’90s and I know I will be talking about the good old days 53 years from now, just as my father, grandpa and their fathers all the way up to ‘Adam’ and his garden.

  210. Felipe Lawdez says:

    Um….yeah this is bs (abbreviated by Admin), I just graduated from high school and none of this would happen, you are an old conservative hag, who wishes everything was like “the good old days”, when you could be openly racist (Pedro example). How about you just get on with it and die already, seriously. You are the kind of person that gives America a bad name in this world.

    (Admin Note: Another comment I’m approving to help illustrate the point of the post, and the difference between 1957 and 2009. Felipe actually wishes me dead for posting this on my blog.)

  211. crazysquid says:

    This is a very good example of the difference between 1957 and today.
    In 1957, Felipe probably would not have lived long enough to see graduation from high school. Today, not only did he graduate from high school,(With apparently the meagerest of G.P.A.) he actually get’s to have access to something that both scares him, and tortures his patriotic soul.
    Do not fear Felipe Dan. He does not understand fully the concepts (NO, just concepts) as yet in his short time on earth.
    Felipe, In 1957, You would have had neither the access nor the cultural affordibility to attend High school to it’s completion. As I posted before, things were not all gravy bak then, and it as people like our fathers and mothers who fought the injustices of that era. As such, they now want to relax from their “War” on injustices and reflect on all the good things that DID happen during that specific year.
    Your comment is akin to all the religeous Zealots who take one little passage from the bible and build an entire belief system from it, and “Bedamned al those who do not believe the same”.. The post was meant to reflect on the good times and aspects of a specific year. It in no way shape or form condoned any racial support or revival. If all that you have dirived from this post is “Racial Recovery” from the past, then I am sorry that you are still living in an apparent area of the world that tolerates racial hatred. BUT to openly wish death upon someone you perseved as causing you racial respites, without actually readind the post just shows that in 2009, the school system has failed because it alloweda closed minded person like you glide through.

  212. James says:

    I would most assuredly wish to grow up in the 50′s. As the population grows, (out of control), the mentality of the people seems to be decreasing. Really, to get back on track, we only have to revive “COMMON SENSE”.
    Nice article…Thank you.

  213. James says:

    Oh, one more comment. As indicated in a previous post, some day this era might be known as the “good-old-days”. Lord knows, I hope not. I hope the American people will wake up to what is happening to our beautiful country and put a stop to it.

  214. crazysquid says:

    There are times when I wish that I could go back to the fifties. The fifties had everything that today has not. IGNORANT BLISS!.
    Ignorant Bliss is what the fifties were all about. No one in the Government was telling anyone about anything because no one asked.
    Now the Government has to tell you about everything, which gives the tremendously stupid an opinion on things that they have no concept of nor really care about.
    Take Filipe Lawdez for example. A perfectly ignorant person of the highest magnitude. The very shinning example of stupidity at it’s glory. It is his constitutional right to express his opinion, no matter how stupid it is. He will in fact never see this web blog again because it is not on his “Favorites List” which he then will forget. He is no different than the kids of the fifties except that he now has access to his mommy’s computer, and in between Face-book, Twitter and porn sites, he happens upon a fairly intellectual posting web site that he does not fully understand, and posts a comment, in theory, of an intellectual manor that his 1.3 GPA High School diploma can afford.
    Don’t worry Dan, he is by far to stupid to cast a curse of death on anyone.

  215. kersplash says:

    I realize my comment comes way late in the discussion, but I just stumbled upon this article and… just no. I understand the need to idealize the past, but there was plenty wrong back then that has changed for the better.

    I doubt I personally would have come out of high school in 1957 a sane, healthy individual (if at all)… perhaps because I’m neither heterosexual nor white. I think your privilege may be blinding you a bit.

  216. crazysquid says:

    I don’t know Kersplash, my father graduated High School in 1957.
    Back then, in most states minorities and whites did not really attend the same schools. My Father did not know but a couple of minorities (Black, Hispanic, Asian etc.) but he was “Native American”. He may hap of been heterosexual, but he knew of, and tolerated a couple of Gay students, whom he said practiced the “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” policy WAY before President Clinton did.
    Unfortunately, a lot of my Cousins still act as if they were in the fifties with their intolerance of Minorities and Gays. I tell them that I do not care for their opinions and would prefer not to hear them, but it is STILL their Constitutional right to express them. That does not mean that i have to agree with them, just recognize their right to do so.
    I served this country, Defending it’s Constitution and protecting YOUR right to be who you want to be, regardless of any factors but illegal ones.
    Kersplsh, You be who you want to be, and just remember that one day closed minded people will understand the guaranteed right to ” The pursuit of happiness” by ALL.

  217. kersplash says:

    I’m not disagreeing with your point at all, crazysquid.

    My argument is with what the author of the original chain mail is implying with his comparison of 1957 and today — that people had greater freedom and that life was generally better back in the ‘good old days’. Taking that view is being very ignorant of how the rights of sexual and racial minorities in America have improved since then.

    And I realize that the article is supposed to be comically blowing things out of proportion to prove its point, but I think that in doing so it ends up satirizing legislation that is designed to promote equality (see: Scenario 6, for one). Plus, I’ll be honest, I was a Psychology major in college and the implications of Scenario 2 are a little irritating.

  218. crazysquid says:

    The only sure thing that has really changed since 1957 and 2010 is the date. History will always repeat itself as younger people look to things that happened 50 years ago as “Ancient Times” and they do not apply to them.
    We as a society have had the ability to conform to the daily changes that confront us each waking moment. It is the ones who feel that to conform to societies needs in mass, is a sign of defeat, that usually causes the impacts that are heard on the News. To conform is good, but to conform completely is a quick way to destroy any culture. There will always be bigotry, and evil deeds put forth by Man. this has not changed much since 1957 AD or BC.
    Legislation does not change what is in the hearts of the intolerant, the ignorant or the “Just Plain Stupid” people of the world.
    The Media has become both a Blessing and a Curse, as it does bring out in to the open the intolerance of people. They did not do in the 50′s. unfortunately, they will bend the facts as they see fit to make a good story line. In the fifties, “Hate Crimes” were not reported unless they were committed by minorities.
    Today, They make every Newspaper and Television news program in the country.
    I am glad that you were “Being Honest”. (By the way, I have always disliked that saying as it implies that everything you have said before was untruthful)
    So, that said, Legislation is not the answer. Information and propaganda has ALWAYS worked far better than the Government stepping in and telling the People how they should feel, and behave. It sort of puts a “Bullet” on what I was attempting to convey about the “Pursuit Of happiness”. If someone is happy trashy the Gays, and Minorities, then we can not “Tattle Tell” to the government and MAKE them to make them stop. We can only ASK them to stop. As long as no one is PHISICALLY hurt by them, or property damage is done (i.e.- Cross burnings, Beatings, Damages to homes or businesses) then we will just have to put up with the “Hurt Feelings”.

  219. kersplash says:

    Well, IF I’M BEING HONEST(I kid!) I disagree that legislation is ineffective in promoting equality. For example, do you think people would have been more likely to vote for an African American presidential candidate before or after civil rights legislation was passed?

    Legislation is obviously not going to directly sway people’s viewpoints (on race, in this example), but it does cause change. After blacks were given equal rights, people were forced to confront their xenophobia and learn tolerance of a minority group. Without it, we would have just stayed at the status quo.

    That’s one of the major points of the US legislative & judicial branches, to uphold the fundamental rights of the minority in the face of voting by the majority. It’s when we go against that — like (arguably) Prop 8 in California — and the majority votes on the rights of a minority group, that problems emerge.

  220. crazysquid says:

    I know that legislation makes people confront that which they may disagree with and are ignorant of, but it will not change their attitude. The fundamental rights of the minority is the same as the rights of anyone else, and the first amendment is the most important amendment that there is. I can not remember who it was that said that if he were only allowed one amendment, it would be the first. With this amendment he would regain all the ones back that were taken away from him.
    I believe that. The first amendment is rapidly being eaten away by those that feel that it ‘s not nice to hurt others feelings. To uphold the first amendment, you must be willing to sacrifice your feelings for the greater good. If not, you will probably see people go to jail for insulting someone. In the fifties, you actually could go to jail if you were Black, and Insulted a White person. I will grant that it took the Supreme Court to decide that it was unconstitutional to arrest someone for insulting another, and I agree with that.
    The K.K.K. has every bit as much right to march down the streets of Harlem as the Black Panthers have to march down the streets of Birmingham, Alabama.
    There are going to be a lot of hurt feelings from both sides, but, it is their Constitutional right.
    To take those rights away would mean an end to Democracy. To let the Government decide everything would be total Communism.
    To pass a law that says that you can no longer hate or insult someone would be just as futile as the “Just Say No” campaign, which I thought was just plain dumb. I mean, like a Drug Addict is going to see the former First Lady on T.V. Say “Just Say No” and slap themselves on the forehead and say: Why Didn’t I Think Of That. Absolutely a waste of air space that could have told them where to get real help.
    In the fifties, there really was little freedom of speech. You could not say a disparaging word about a politician on national television. The news would never bleep out the “N” word when used to defile a Black Person. Today, a White person who uses that word is labeled as a Racist, Race Criminal, Flagged by every minority association and branded forever as a bigot. Just look what happened to “Cramer”. (I can’t remember his name) His reasoning was that Blacks say it openly all the time, so why are we, as whites, being treated with prejudice for using the word in the EXACT SAME context as Blacks? I guess Congress will have to ban the word and make it illegal for ANYONE to say it so that the letter of the law is maintained. Do you see kind of what I am driving at. The very word can divide two races to such a magnitude as to cause riots and killings, yet it is not illegal to say it. All I am saying is that what is right for one should always be right for the other. I would not and do not use the word, nor do I tolerate it’s use around me. On the other hand, I also do not tolerate race slurs of ANY kind by anyone just for the harmony of My Company. But, I can not control what they do or say outside of the business property.
    First Amendment Rights Always.

  221. kersplash says:

    Who is arguing against first amendment rights here? I don’t think I ever said that people didn’t have the right to speak their opinion on minority rights…

    As for you larger point, I agree that people’s views aren’t generally changed by legislation that passes while they are alive. It’s the next generation, who grows up and lives life with this new legislation passed and actively upheld, who will be affected by it. I’m in my early 20s, for example; in my experience ( and this is anecdotal, but I’m also from the dirty South where this minority rights are a major issue), it’s always my peers’ parents and grandparents who have more of a problem with racial and sexual minorities than they do themselves. It’s a generational thing, and a lot of that comes from growing up in a more tolerating culture. How does that culture happen? Legislation.

  222. Larry says:

    Whoa. Culture happens by legislation? Think about that for a moment. In the case of meaningful, long lasting, enabling legislation, it is exactly the reverse. Emancipation didn’t drive the culture – culture drove us to emancipation. Similarly with civil rights laws in the 60’s, the culture was demanding the legislation, not the reverse. Likewise with women’s rights, from women’s suffrage to sexual discrimination laws, the cultural change preceded the legislation. Legislation driving culture, by definition, is governing against the will of the people. That’s tyranny.

    Now admittedly the culture was not uniformly in favor of the changes embodied in the legislation when these ideas became law. If it were, the laws would have been unnecessary. But the culture was already changing, and not just on the lunatic fringe. The cultural movement toward abolition destroyed the Whig Party and founded the Republican Party. Culture led, politics followed. Similarly civil accomplishment and contribution by blacks had far outpaced the assumptions behind an inconsistent patchwork of unjust, provably needless laws long before our federal civil rights laws. Again cultural change happened first.

    There’s a place for legislation in promoting cultural change, to be sure. And ‘kersplash’ is right that the change is not lasting change until it becomes part of the assumed culture of the next generation. But don’t make the mistake of believing a law or two will change the culture. It won’t. Cultural change is a ‘full contact sport,’ played between friends and neighbors, work associates and colleagues, in churches, bars, baseball diamonds and band shells. Once the change reaches the hearts and minds of a significant portion of the population, usually a minority, but a fairly large minority, then legislation can be used to solidify the change and promote it further, but legislation is never the cause of the change.

    Change happens in the hearts and minds of you and me. Laws merely reflect that change. Not vice versa.

    • crazysquid says:

      You have cemented my point exactly. laws can not, and will not change those that do not wish to be changed. it will only make them a criminal.
      the Emancipation Proclamation was brought about by mostly Northern peoples who felt that it was wrong to enslave anyone, anywhere in the United States. The law happened because of people who recognized an injustice. Just as the judge who overturned the gay marriage ban in California. This is a judge who see’s that the Bill Of Rights, Constitution and just plain common sense were being violated. The Bill Of Rights and the constitution have not changed much since the ’50′s, just the understanding of it’s meaning as it pertains to ALL Americans, regardless of race, Creed, religon or Sexual preference. If you really want to see what intolerance is just visit this site and read the article.
      http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/missouri.funeral.protests.ruling/index.html?eref=rss_latest

  223. crazysquid says:

    I can not see that legislation has as much of an influence as you may think. we are not talking about the rights of “Little Johnny” to wear offensive T-Shirts to school that clog up the judicial system. We are talking about the First Amendments as they pertain not only minorities, but each and every Citizen. it is illegal to yell “Fire” in a movie theatre, Why, it induces panic and a danger to the public, But, it is a violation of the first amendment none the less. In this case, I will have to agree that a law passed to try and prevent this had good intentions and shows that the First Amendment is not in keeping with the advance of civilization, But, it also goes to show that the Government thinks that every thing can be solved just by passing a law to make it illegal.What I am trying to convey is, where does it stop. As it is progressing, soon you will become a criminal and possibly go to jail for calling the “Weight Challenged Americans” fat because it hurts their feelings, or calling a minority by a racially offensive slur will get you the death penalty.
    As small a thing as making it illegal to yell fire in a movie theatre, or not allowing that kid to wear a T-shirt that read “I Hate fags”, is just the beginning.
    The ones that are taking away the liberties and rights are Banking on the fact that it is passed from generation to generation. They are very patient in that they have the ability to pass on to other generations what they want changed by means of what is taught in schools. What is heard and read in the Media etc.
    Not a lot of “Big Issues” get the attention of legislators with out them hearing it, or reading about it in every headline and T.V. station.
    I am by no means a conspiracy freak or anything to that effect, But it seems, as I observe it’ that the Media, whether it is T.V., Newspapers, Internet, is the ones that dictate policies and the way people change. help me out here, think what shows broke color barriers, religious barriers..you see where I’m going..After they came out in the open on national T.V., things seemed to have started to change.
    So I’d like to throw this out for discussion; media has more influence over cultures than any laws passed by congress. No legislative mandate can come close to the power of the pen. the pen being those few that wright the stories, articles shows, moviesetc. etc. The media is covered under the First Amendment, and can pretty much say what they want with impunity, sufice that it is perseved to be factual that is.
    If itwere to be wrong, it is too late. The information has already been planted in the minds of the masses. People will believe Diane Sawyer before they would Believe the President.

  224. crazysquid says:

    I can not see that legislation has as much of an influence as you may think. we are not talking about the rights of “Little Johnny” to wear offensive T-Shirts to school that clog up the judicial system. We are talking about the First Amendments as they pertain not only minorities, but each and every Citizen. it is illegal to yell “Fire” in a movie theatre, Why, it induces panic and a danger to the public, But, it is a violation of the first amendment none the less. In this case, I will have to agree that a law passed to try and prevent this had good intentions and shows that the First Amendment is not in keeping with the advance of civilization, But, it also goes to show that the Government thinks that every thing can be solved just by passing a law to make it illegal.What I am trying to convey is, where does it stop. As it is progressing, soon you will become a criminal and possibly go to jail for calling the “Weight Challenged Americans” fat because it hurts their feelings, or calling a minority by a racially offensive slur will get you the death penalty.
    As small a thing as making it illegal to yell fire in a movie theatre, or not allowing that kid to wear a T-shirt that read “I Hate fags”, is just the beginning.
    The ones that are taking away the liberties and rights are Banking on the fact that it is passed from generation to generation. They are very patient in that they have the ability to pass on to other generations what they want changed by means of what is taught in schools. What is heard and read in the Media etc.
    Not a lot of “Big Issues” get the attention of legislators with out them hearing it, or reading about it in every headline and T.V. station.
    I am by no means a conspiracy freak or anything to that effect, But it seems, as I observe it’ that the Media, whether it is T.V., Newspapers, Internet, is the ones that dictate policies and the way people change. help me out here, think what shows broke color barriers, religious barriers..you see where I’m going..After they came out in the open on national T.V., things seemed to have started to change.
    So I’d like to throw this out for discussion; media has more influence over cultures than any laws passed by congress. No legislative mandate can come close to the power of the pen. the pen being those few that wright the stories, articles shows, movies etc. etc. The media is covered under the First Amendment, and can pretty much say what they want with impunity, suffice that it is perceived to be factual that is.
    If it were to be wrong, it is too late. The information has already been planted in the minds of the masses. People will believe Diane Sawyer before they would Believe the President.

  225. kersplash says:

    Thanks, Larry, and you’re absolutely right that legislation driving culture would be tyranny; I wasn’t really thinking that through enough when I said it. I do believe, regardless, that governmental intervention is often required to protect minority rights from the voting power of the majority.

    And, crazysquid, no doubt the media has power on par with the government — that’s why they’re the unofficial ‘fourth estate’. The problem is when that media is bought out by big business (FOX), or when news stations decide they need to present both sides of every single issue, regardless of the validity of one argument over another (CNN). In that respect I can agree that 1957 > 2009.

  226. Matthew says:

    I assume people mentioned these, but here we go:

    Scenario 9:

    Little Ernest attempts to go to a school with white children in it.

    1957: Parents complain about having a black child in their local school. The National Guard is called in to block Ernest and 8 classmates from entering the school. The president assigns an armed escort to allow the children to go to school. It remains a tense school year, and one of Ernest’s classmates has acid thrown in her eyes.

    2009: Little Ernest is admitted with no problems.

    Scenario 10:

    Johnny’s parents take him out to buy some comics and watch a movie.

    1957: Johnny or his parents don’t see anything objectionable; because the comic and movie industries are concerned about being practically shut down by the federal government, the Comics Code Authority and the MPAA (using the Hays code) prohibit mentions of homosexuality, sexual perversion, or childbirth; methodology of crimes; the sanctity of marriage being broken (divorce, adultery, illicit sex); depiction of illegal drugs; and many, many more. Johnny and his parents grow up with a skewed perception of reality, and a generation of artists, writers and filmmakers suffer through creative filtering that holds back both forms of art for twenty-plus years from maturing as fast as their counterparts in Europe.

    2009: Movies, comics, and video games are all very clearly labeled for age appropriateness. Johnny’s parents buy him a Mature game, and let him see a Rated ‘R’ movie. They proceed to hire Jack Thompson to sue the video game company, and protest the movie that their child shouldn’t have watched anyway. Neither work. Films, comics, and video games are all multi-billion dollar industries. Johnny grows up to be well adjusted.

    Scenario 11:

    Little Johnny’s parents are suspected of being less than vehemently against America’s enemies!

    1957: The US government used illegal wiretaps to keep tabs on his parents, kept them on a blacklist for suspected communist activities, and makes their life a living hell. However, McCarthyism is on the decline: 14 formerly convicted communists are released.

    2009: The US government uses (now) legal wiretaps to keep tabs on his parents, keeps them on a no-fly list for suspected terrorist activities, and makes their life a living hell. However, fear of terrorism is on the decline: but no suspected terrorists have been released from Guantanamo Bay.

    Okay, that last one could go either way.

  227. Hans says:

    I feel like some of the ones for 2009 were very exaggerated. I myself have blown up ants in 2009, and yes, ants died. FBI was not called, and no one was put on terror watch list.

  228. Staci says:

    This is absolutely ridiculous. I’ve noticed that in the 1957 version of the scenario you have taken the best outcome and in the 2009 version of the scenario you take the worst possible outcome. Yes, there would be repercussions in the 2009 versions, however you are making a mountain out of an ant hill in most cases. As well, in the 1957 version it seems that nobody is ever reprimanded for their actions other than a paddling. It is clear you have a bias and it shows greatly. If you truly wanted to show the difference between the two generations you have to be objective.

    • Dan Nickerson says:

      Staci,

      It’s clear you didn’t even take the time to read the intro. I didn’t write it.. I stated the scenarios are extreme.. When people post it would be great if they could reveal their age. It’s telling that those who ACTUALLY lived in the late 50′s early 60′s, seem to sympathize with the scenarios, and those that did not, think they’re ridiculous.

  229. crazysquid. says:

    I did not grow up in the 50′s. I was born in 1961. I could not speak about what happened first hand in the fifties, and I was really not conscious of the indignities of the 60′s, nor the good that had come out of them. The only thing about the 50′s that I know, I heard from my Parents, and Grand Parents.
    Every society changes with each generation. may hap the whole cycle of life will start a new circle and history will only repeat itself again, or it will continue to advance in a straight line and become more and more progressive. To post scenarios that go from a Devil-May-care attitude to extreme stupidity on the part of the U.S. government is in running with how this generation is clashing with the last, and the next. There really is not much difference since time began. (And no, I was not around since time began so I do not have first hand knowledge of that either) The only thing most of us have to go by in history is what our Ancestors tell us, and history dictates. I am sure that the way the 50′s are told depends on many factors. Such as a kid growing up in rural North Carolina, far from any “Big City Ways” would have a different outlook than someone who grew up in the Ghetto’s of New York City.
    As is the case of Wars, the Victors make the history. We will only believe what we want, and believe only as much as the credibility of the persons telling it.

  230. Rtkkhuzm07 says:

    Personally, I would like to think that, outside of the redneck states, American race relations were slowly STARTING to improve by 1957, even though they still had a long way to go. I have many 1940s & 50′s pulp magazines which feature stories with the odd minority, and these magazines usually portray these people quite positively.

  231. TylerB22 says:

    While Dan did make it clear early in the post that this artile favored the 1957 version of things, I think that a few of the 2009 scenarios are extreme examples. Guns in schools should not be tolerated at all, regardless of the attitude of people Half A Century ago. Fights in schools, in 2009, do not often result in expulsion for either party. Children with Attention Deficit Disorder are being mediated in an attempt to make them better students, not zombies. I would imagine that children who were struggling in school in 1957 would have welcomed some form of help other than being “given a good paddling by the Priniple”. One note that I agree with the author on is the handling of foreign students who do not learn english. By coddling students who choose to slack in their studies, and blaming their faliures on some diluted coneption of collaborative racism, we are weakening our national identity. That is a subject for another post.

  232. Mike says:

    As a child of the 60′s I would not disagree entirely with any of the comments above, but would point out that today we are definitely living in a society where political correctness has gone over the top. Our community had indians and blacks and whites, but we didn’t know we were suppose to all be treated differently. We were silly and just went to school and played together as if we were all pretty much the same. It was political correctness that taught us to recognize that there were differences. Too bad, we were better off not knowing.
    Sarcasm, yes, but sadly very true. Todays world is run by lawyers for their own profit regardless of the impact on society. “And justice for all” has gone down the toilet, we now have “a legal loophole for all” and if that doesn’t work then scream prejudice.
    Today I admit to being “prejudice”, but to me it means based on what I have seen, I will, in the way of the humans, consider you a threat until you prove different through action or word. I will pre judge everyone, and let them prove themselves.

  233. Bob says:

    So true, America is overachieving on small things going on in school. Parents are not able to discipline their children properly.

  234. Lorri says:

    1957: Daddy is a carpenter ang girl learns to use hammer and nails. Girl wants to take Shop Class in jr. high school. Is forced to take “Home Ec” (Home Ecch!) instead.

    2009: She takes Shop class
    ____________________
    1957: Kid catches polio. Dies or is disabled (‘crippled’ back then).
    2009: What’s polio?

    1957: Stepmother severely abuses child, bruises, broken arm. No consequences.
    2009: School reports abuse. Stepmother prosecuted.

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